Playoff H2H Rule

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:22 pm

First, I'd like to apologize (again) to Ken for the WC game a couple years ago and to anyone else who may have had to play a sim series against me in past postseasons because I was unavailable for H2H.

I'd like to propose a rule that we require H2H play in future postseasons.

Having the computer manage an elimination game as if it were a regular season game kind of cheapens all of our other considerable efforts at realism.

For example, Game 3 of my ALDS series with Seattle this season. SP Jared Cosart gives up a 2B a WP and a HR to allow Seattle to cut a 3-0 lead to 3-2. He is left in the game and gives up, in succession BB, 1B, BB, BB, 2B:

Code: Select all

**************  Bottom of the 4th inning, Mariners batting 
 3-0  0 --- 02  Miller,B grounded out to third &#40;FCX&#41; 
 3-0  1 --- 00  Dietrich lined a double to right center &#40;X&#41; 
 3-0  1 -2- 00  Vogt allowed a passed ball, Dietrich to third &#40;B&#41; 
 3-0  1 --3 11  Cosart threw a wild pitch, Dietrich scored &#40;B.SB&#41; 
 3-1  1 --- 22  Abreu homered deep down the left-field line &#40;B.SB.FFX&#41; 
 3-2  1 --- 31  Dickerson,Co flied out to left &#40;BBCBX&#41; 
 3-2  2 --- 30  Morales,K walked &#40;BBBB&#41; 
 3-2  2 1-- 11  Wieters lined a single up the middle, Morales,K to second 
                  &#40;SBX&#41; 
 3-2  2 12- 31  Buxton walked, Morales,K to third, Wieters to second 
                  &#40;BBBCB&#41; 
 3-2  2 123 31  Headley walked, Morales,K scored, Wieters to third, 
                  Buxton to second &#40;BSBBB&#41; 
 3-3  2 123 00  Arcia,Or lined a double to right center, Wieters scored, 
                  Buxton scored, Headley scored &#40;X&#41; 
                Rodney now pitching 
 3-6  2 -2- 12  Miller,B flied out to right &#40;CBCX&#41;

No way anybody managing H2H leaves Cosart out there to give up 6 ER in an inning in an elimination game.

If we require teams to play all postseason series H2H, worst case scenario is probably someone is very busy and we have to wait a week. If you can't find the time to sim the games over a 2 week span, then you can appoint another GM to manage the game for you. We could probably allow exceptions for international travel or a death in the family or something, but going forward I think this is an easy rule to implement that improves the experience and isn't likely to cause any controversy down the line.

Thoughts?

Reds · Post by **Reds** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:26 pm

Would've been great to have that rule last season.

Guardians · Post by **Guardians** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:32 pm

I've been somewhat regularly advocating for this for some time. I think leaving the playoffs up to a computer manager is dumb. Everyone has (or should) the software and everyone knows how to use it. All you're doing is clicking buttons to hit, steal, bunt, so it's not very complex. I don't like the idea of requiring people to do something that's supposed to be for fun, but I agree it really cheapens the yearslong efforts to watch something unthinkable by your manager cost you the playoffs.

Phillies · Post by **Phillies** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:36 pm

Honestly I thought it was an unwritten rule. JP gave me and Jake extended time to get it done.

Rangers · Post by **Rangers** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:47 pm

My only issue is that some really abuse the pitch taking and that can turn playing a series from 60-90 minutes into a much larger time commitment. I don't know if it's right to demand guys to dedicate 3+ hours in a week because the other guy doesn't have anything else to do but take sixty pitches a game, and I have been in playoff series that were being played at that pace or worse.

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:20 pm

Rangers wrote:My only issue is that some really abuse the pitch taking and that can turn playing a series from 60-90 minutes into a much larger time commitment. I don't know if it's right to demand guys to dedicate 3+ hours in a week because the other guy doesn't have anything else to do but take sixty pitches a game, and I have been in playoff series that were being played at that pace or worse.

Yikes. I'm glad I haven't had to play anyone like that. Most of my series have taken 60-90 min. Can't imagine that'll happen a ton though.

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:02 am

Granted I've not been in the playoffs since 2008 until this year but I'd like for this to be a thing as well. I remember in the 2008 WS against Pat my sim manager made some decisions I'd have never made and it cost me Game 7.

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:26 am

I thought this was already a requirement.

Marlins · Post by **Marlins** » Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:36 am

Yeah, isn't that in the updated rul... oh wait.

Giants · Post by **Giants** » Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:44 pm

While I'm all for this I think we need to add a caveat that allows a GM to deputize another GM to play for them just to make sure things actually happen. If you don't care about letting the sim manager do it then you shouldn't complain about JP doing it and that seems like the fair way to deal with GMs who really can't make it.

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:06 pm

Giants wrote:While I'm all for this I think we need to add a caveat that allows a GM to deputize another GM to play for them just to make sure things actually happen. If you don't care about letting the sim manager do it then you shouldn't complain about JP doing it and that seems like the fair way to deal with GMs who really can't make it.

That's true, and chances are I'd be a pretty massive upgrade over the sim manager anyway.

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:01 pm

Giants wrote:While I'm all for this I think we need to add a caveat that allows a GM to deputize another GM to play for them just to make sure things actually happen. If you don't care about letting the sim manager do it then you shouldn't complain about JP doing it and that seems like the fair way to deal with GMs who really can't make it.

I do think we should add that whoever is deputized be someone that is not in the playoffs that year

Padres · Post by **Padres** » Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:06 pm

Cardinals wrote:
Giants wrote:While I'm all for this I think we need to add a caveat that allows a GM to deputize another GM to play for them just to make sure things actually happen. If you don't care about letting the sim manager do it then you shouldn't complain about JP doing it and that seems like the fair way to deal with GMs who really can't make it.
I do think we should add that whoever is deputized be someone that is not in the playoffs that year

That would eliminate JP for the foreseeable future

Tigers · Post by **Tigers** » Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:41 pm

Yeah, that rule was put in the updated version of the rules. Now where did they get placed?

Dan, apologies for not having time to play H2H that series. Just not possible in my schedule these days. As it is I have to steal the wife's SurfacePro to send lineups in. I only use an iPad at home anymore. Wish DM would support it.

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:00 pm

Mariners wrote:Yeah, that rule was put in the updated version of the rules. Now where did they get placed?

Dan, apologies for not having time to play H2H that series. Just not possible in my schedule these days. As it is I have to steal the wife's SurfacePro to send lineups in. I only use an iPad at home anymore. Wish DM would support it.

It's not currently a rule regardless.

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:00 pm

WhiteSox wrote:
Cardinals wrote:
Giants wrote:While I'm all for this I think we need to add a caveat that allows a GM to deputize another GM to play for them just to make sure things actually happen. If you don't care about letting the sim manager do it then you shouldn't complain about JP doing it and that seems like the fair way to deal with GMs who really can't make it.
I do think we should add that whoever is deputized be someone that is not in the playoffs that year
That would eliminate JP for the foreseeable future

Sure would!

But I agree. It can't be somebody currently in the playoffs.

Tigers · Post by **Tigers** » Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:04 pm

JP, I know its not a rule....was just piling on.

Just wish DM would support apple products too. Would make it much easier.

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:28 pm

Mariners wrote:Yeah, that rule was put in the updated version of the rules. Now where did they get placed?

Dan, apologies for not having time to play H2H that series. Just not possible in my schedule these days. As it is I have to steal the wife's SurfacePro to send lineups in. I only use an iPad at home anymore. Wish DM would support it.

No worries dude. Just have to win next year I guess.

Dodgers · Post by **Dodgers** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:03 pm

I'm probably in the minority, but I wouldn't want to play H2H for someone and then have them lose the series on a decision I make (send runner or not, leave starter in, etc.).

Padres · Post by **Padres** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:54 pm

Dodgers wrote:I'm probably in the minority, but I wouldn't want to play H2H for someone and then have them lose the series on a decision I make (send runner or not, leave starter in, etc.).

If I were unable to play HtH and asked you to do it in my place I would not bitch a bit ... if I didn't have faith in your desire and ability to do the best you could with my team I won't ask you - and, in your case, I would ask cause I do have that belief if the situation arose.

BlueJays · Post by **BlueJays** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:48 am

I agree with Jim, if I asked anybody to fill in for me, I'd still be thankful even if my team gets swept. If I can't find time to run my team, I can't complain when somebody takes care of my responsibilities.

Guardians · Post by **Guardians** » Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:43 pm

Great idea by Sander, if possible. Since there is an option to play "h2h" against the computer, what about a situation where an unaffiliated third party viewer comes in to observe the game to ensure it was played fully/not restarted. I don't know if this is an option for DMB to view only, but if possible, perhaps this could solve some of our issues. I would still advocate for owners who are willing to pay attention for 162 games from April to September be willing to play H2H in the playoffs since there are no real restrictions. But if someone were absolutely unable for a reason, maybe this could be an option. More research would be necessary to see if that's an option or if once you connect you have to pick home or away and can't just watch...

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:56 pm

You can't actual view the games when you connect as a viewer. You can only see the chat box.

Guardians · Post by **Guardians** » Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:32 pm

Pirates wrote:You can't actual view the games when you connect as a viewer. You can only see the chat box.

So, there is a way to connect at least as a third party. Well, I guess the monitoring would be to ensure no one abruptly ended a game to restart. Not sure if that would be acceptable oversight, but maybe a solution to consider.

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:35 pm

I'm going to be in the minority and take a lot of heat for this, but I don't really see the need to mandate h2h. Yeah, it stinks not to H2H your playoff games, but we let the sim decide the entire year for the most part. Games in September could be more valuable than LDS or LCS Game 1, 2. It is very rare when we sim playoff games, and I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with other GMs playing as surrogate GMs.

To me, it's a slippery slope and I don't really want to go down it.