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Post by Royals »

Perfect regular season
Coach of the Year: Bill Belichick
Executive of the Year: Scott Pioli (that was a lock when he pulled off Moss for a 4th rounder)
MVP: Tom Brady
Top offensive player: Tom Brady
50 TD passes: Tom Brady
23 TD receptions: Randy Moss

Oh, one more fun fact I just heard...
Peyton Manning in 2004, 10 games in domes
Tom Brady in 2007, 1 game in a dome
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Post by Athletics »

What an awesome game. Jacksonville didnt stand a chance.
"My shit doesn't work in the playoffs. My job is to get us to the playoffs. What happens after that is fucking luck."

LAA 11 - 15 331W - 479L
LAA 16 - 20 477W - 333L 17-20 ALW
OAK 21 - 24 297W - 189L 21-22 ALW
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Post by Giants »

I really wish I still gambled, I'd put it all on New England. I do have to say that I was impressed by Garrard though, he made a couple of throws (especially the one Northcutt should have caught that would have tied it at 21) I didn't know he could make. But if you want to beat the Patriots you have to play grown up defense, the Jags spent the entire game in prevent and that's not going to get it done against this squad.
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Post by Astros »

If the Jags had been agressive on defense I think they could've won the game. They spent so much time worrying about giving up the big play that they didn't play the way they normally do. In the 4th, when they got aggressive, they were putting pressure on and only a great play from Brady on the bomb to Stallworth bailed them out there.

Northcutt has a history of drops in the playoffs. He dropped a pass in 03 that would've sealed a WC game for the Browns. He was involed in, aside from the Garrad fumble, the 3 biggest plays that coulda swung the game toward the Jags. If he doesn't drop the ball inside the 5, the game is tied. If he'd have made the catch that went off his fingertips in the 4th the Jags could've still hung in. The ball that was slightly overthrown at the end of the first half, if he could've came up with that, I think the Jags would've got a FG attempt off at least, cause it would've been a first down and he'd have got out of bounds fairly close to midfield
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Post by Astros »

Yes Bren, I'm sure when the Colts moved to Indy, the Irsays said to themselves, hey, in 15 years we're going to draft Archie Manning's son, so we'd better play in a dome, but let's play in a dome from the moment we move to Indy so it won't look like a conspiracy
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Post by Dodgers »

Jake, Pats were -750 on the money line yesterday. Would have lost if you bet the 13.5 point spread.
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Post by Royals »

Cardinals wrote:Yes Bren, I'm sure when the Colts moved to Indy, the Irsays said to themselves, hey, in 15 years we're going to draft Archie Manning's son, so we'd better play in a dome, but let's play in a dome from the moment we move to Indy so it won't look like a conspiracy
Who said anything about a conspiracy? It's just one more thing that makes Brady's accomplishment look that much better.
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Post by Royals »

Jacksonville played a great game, but really, they were doomed either way. If they played their normal D, we'd have been hearing "Brady to Moss" all night long. It was damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I was really impressed by two things. One was the play of David Garrard. He played a great game, even if one of his TD passes might have been a bad call (Not saying it was, I just think the call could have gone either way). Second was the way the Pats shut down Jacksonville's running game.
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Post by Astros »

You're reaching to try and come up with reasons to knock Peyton for no reason. Here's a fun fact, Brady broke the record by 1 TD while played the entirety of the last game of the season that meant nothing and got a lot of those TDs running up the score late in the 4th. Peyton played 1 series the last game of 04 and was sitting early in the 4th in a lot of those games. Hmm, I sound like a prick don't I? That's how you're coming off
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Post by Dodgers »

I think a word block of Peyton and Brady might be in order if you two can't keep it civil again.
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Post by Royals »

Cardinals wrote:You're reaching to try and come up with reasons to knock Peyton for no reason. Here's a fun fact, Brady broke the record by 1 TD while played the entirety of the last game of the season that meant nothing and got a lot of those TDs running up the score late in the 4th. Peyton played 1 series the last game of 04 and was sitting early in the 4th in a lot of those games. Hmm, I sound like a prick don't I? That's how you're coming off
Actually, you're looking for slights against Manning (insecure a little?), all I'm doing is talking up Brady. I only mention Manning because as the former record holder, that's who Brady HAS to be compared against. Manning is a great player. I think he's a mook and a schill as well, but he's unquestionably the second best QB of this day and age and almost certainly one of the top 5 all time.
That doesn't change that playing in a dome is more conducive to the passing game than playing outdoors, particularly in New England as opposed to someplace like Miami. It's like breaking a home run record in Shea Stadium or Petco that was first set in Coors or Citizens Bank Park.
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Post by Yankees »

First of all, agreed with Bren on the Jacksonville defense - the Ravens, Eagles, and Giants (the three teams arguably the most successful vs. the Patriots) - all did the same thing, pushed back their secondary and tried to get a rush from the defensive line. Everybody always says, "Well just blitz Brady," and that's totally assinine for a number of reasons: 1) He has the best pocket feel of any quarterback I've ever seen 2) He has the best pre-snap reads of anybody not named "Peyton Manning" so I'm sure he'd just hot route the other team to death 3) His offensive line is fucking awesome. They're incredible - all of them. And, finally 4) He has the security blanket known as Randy Moss - worse comes to worse just throw it high in his general direction and you should be just fine.

Jacksonville played a great game. They are a fantastic young team that is just going to get better and better. Garrard is a terrific QB, and I thought Jacksonville actually gave up on the running game a little too early - Taylor and Jones-Drew had been having some success vs. the Pats. They just aren't quite in New England's league - and the Pats just wore them down not making any mistakes. I mean, to hang around for 3 quarters while Brady goes 26-28 (and probably should have been 28-28) is nothing to be embarassed about.

Maybe it's time we just all admitted that the Patriots are THAT good, and just appreciate the awesomeness we are seeing.

Speaking of awesomeness - Brett Favre. He is everything that is awesome about sports. From picking up Grant, to throwing snowballs, to keeping his team up after that start (did anyone think the Seahawks were going to win?), to that whirling under-hand play, to getting his coach to challenge the spot, to the passion he brings to playing - it's unbelievable. You can't help but root for the guy. One of my friends says, "He shouldn't run around, he should act like he's done it before." My response: "He's not doing the Icky Shuffle or dialing a cell phone, he just loves playing that much." It's just awesome.

I think it's pretty neat that we get to watch 3 of the greatest qb's of all time (THE 3 greatest?) at the same time. Pretty cool...
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Post by Royals »

That Packers game was amazing.
First of all, I love watching football played in the weather (meaning snow or rain). Domes make me sick (that's not a jab at Manning) whether it's for baseball or football, Domes are just wrong.
Secondly, you could tell halfway through the first drive after Seattle's second TD that there was NO WAY that Favre was going to lose that game. Wasn't gonna happpen. He was down 14 before the first quarter was even half over but you knew he was going to win.
As for THE 3 greatest... I'd say 3 out of 4. There's just no way that Joe Montana isn't still one of the 3 greatest QB's of all time.
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Post by Pirates »

I think you still have to put Elway and Unitas in the top 5
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Post by Royals »

Hard t argue against those guys, but that puts 6 in our top 5.
AS long as no one suggests Dan Marino though...
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Post by Yankees »

I'd say Montana and Unitas round out the top 5 - and I would have said all 3 over Favre coming into this year, but watching him this year has been a revelation at 38. I'm not saying it's the same, obviously there are massive differences, but it kind of reminds of when Jordan came back from "retirement." He didn't have the explosiveness he once had, but he remade his game to incorporate the greatest fadeaway jump shot anyone's ever seen - and just when you think he was all j's, he'd do one of his customary spin move and dunks over a 7 footer just to remind everyone he still had that trick in the bag. Favre was a gunslinger in the past, but if you watch him this year he has done a tremendous job of finding his check-down receivers and an outstanding job of taking what the defense gives him. Then, every once in a while he'll throw an 85 mph fastball between 3 defenders into the back part of the end zone, or spin out of a sack and flip an underhand pass to a receiver while falling down (I got out of my seat on that play), just to remind everyone that he's still got it.

Only the truly great find a way to change and re-elevate their game - and Favre has officially been inducted into the truly great. I'm not sure if anyone saw the "Welcome to the Club" tribute to Favre, but it got real dusty in the room when I was watching it. Here's the link to it... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWrcYxfwOVc - and I defy you to watch and not get emotional.
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Post by DBacks »

The sad thing about this whole thing is that the Patriots really are that good. And if they didn't have Belichick and Harrison I might not hate them quite as much. But alas, they do have them, and I do hate them so.

Its hard to see anyone beating them now. I thought Indy and Dallas had the best shots and they both went bye bye. I think both NFC teams can give them a run for the money though, especially Green Bay. I don't care what team it is, you just can't guarantee a win against Brett Favre. The man is capable of doing miraculous things.

As far as this last game goes, the Jags never had a shot. I agree they had to drop the secondary back, but there comes a point in a game where you have to say "This isn't working, let's try something else." And even in the fourth I didn't feel like they were bringing enough guys. Or maybe they were and they just weren't getting through. Either way, Brady probably couldn't tell you what team he was playing against, because he never saw their jerseys. They were hidden behind a wall of Patriots all game long.

And the QB debate? I'd still take Manning any day of the week, if for no other reason than I just like him more. The guy has a personality and charm, something I think Brady lacks. No doubt both are in the top 5 of all time, if not numbers 1 and 2. The NFL really lost out with Indy losing. I don't think there's anything quite like watching two of the greatest go against each other, especially in a championship game. But who knows, maybe little Manning will get another crack at Brady.
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Post by Royals »

I expect the Brady/Manning AFC Championship will happen again.
I actually would have preferred to face the Cowboys in the SB. Reason #1. Brett Favre. The Pats also destroyed the Cowboys earlier in the season (back when they were actually playing decent football). The Giants on the other hand, played the Pats tough in week 17 and GB is an unknown quantity (comparably).
As far as Mannign's personality. He's a mook. Sure he's entertaining (SNL) but he's also a mediawhore who plays off like he's an average Joe. He's a fake. He hasn't been an average guy for one moment of his entire life, any more than Dubya has been. Well, okay, he's probably been closer than Dubya, but the point is, he's always been and always will be a spoiled rich kid. You say Brady doesn't have a personality. I say he takes after BB, he keeps his personal life as private as he can (for a famous QB who dates supermodels) and in public he's all professional.
After the Pats won the SB (their first) Brady was everywhere, he talked to everyone, did boatloads of commercials, interviews, everything. After his second season when the Pats struggled, he took the blame for that on himself and said he'd done too much media wise, he hadn't been selective, he lost his focus and that from then on, he was going to make a point of being more careful about that stuff and make sure he didn't hurt the team. I'm sure BB even warned him about making his life too public and getting distracted. Since then, he has done so many fewer commercials, you'd think he was a league average QB.

The most hatable thing about this Patriots squad is that there is so little to hate about them. You've got Spygate, and that's it and most members of the media acknowledge it was overblown. Every team tapes signals. It's NOT against the rules, what's against the rules is where you do it from. You can sit in the stands with a high-powered superzoom camera and get the same shots. This is a classy team that plays exceptional football and holds themselves to a standard that is above and beyond what any other team does. You don't see them insulting or ripping other teams, players, fans or the media in the press. They don't shout "Hey, Look at me!" when they do something on the field or off the field in the community. They've taken in troubled, mouthy players like Dillon and Moss and made them toe the line and practically act like girl scouts. You don't see Vikings booze cruises, drunk driving arrests, wife beatings or any of that kind of crap that you see in teams all over the league. They don't pander to high priced players, they set a value and stick by it and if you don't like it, have fun playing somewhere else.
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Post by Dodgers »

Scenario: Pats-Pack in the Super Bowl. Is there anyone other than Patriots fans cheering for them? No.

I bet we all know one moron Pats fan that feels the entire world needs to know about their records. There may not be much to hate about the Patriots, but there is sure a lot to hate about their fans.
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Post by Astros »

And that is why everyone hates the Patriots Bren, like most everything related to the region, is smugness. Oh we're great at this, this, this, this and this and to even question it means sour grapes. So little to hate Bren? The leader of the defense is a guy that's been suspended for using HGH and has been the dirtiest player in the league for the past 10 years. How many personal fouls did he get this year, 10, 15? Randy Moss didn't play hard the past 3 years, he gets traded, in a contract year, and suddenly is gives a crap again. Your coach is an egomaniac who never smiles and just seems like a genuine grade A prick. And yeah, Brady sure seems like he's trying to be a normal guy, dating supermodels and going to premires and doing magazine shoots. The whole "Brady is a normal guy" is the biggest crock of shit that Pats fans try to play off.

Has Peyton led a privilaged life? He sure has. But you know what he does with that? He's a huge contributer to the children's hospital in Indy. He runs a football camp with his brothers in the summer that's not an exclusive camp, so even if you're not a top QB, you can still attend, and that has to do a ton of good for kids that are just average players. He's not out running around knocking up D list actresses, he married his college sweetheart.

Now, when you talk to the average person and this is what they see between Brady and Manning, why do you think the average person
likes Peyton more?
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Post by DBacks »

I disagree that there is little to hate about the Pats. There's a lot to hate about the Pats. And yeah, most of them have class, but there are a few who are an embarrassment, Rodney H being on the top of that list. Coach B isn't far behind either. Have you seen this guy after Jets game? Real classy with the glares and no handshakes, even before Spygate.

As for Peyton? Yeah, he's everywhere. Why? Because people like seeing him. And I don't think what Brady is doing is wrong, I have no problem with it at all, I'm just saying Peyton is more engaging and entertaining and that's probably why so many people prefer him over Brady, me included. Well that and he doesn't play for Patriots.

The Chargers are gonna get railroaded this weekend, but on the 3rd we'll see what happens, maybe the rest of us will get a miracle.
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Post by Yankees »

And yeah, Brady sure seems like he's trying to be a normal guy, dating supermodels and going to premires and doing magazine shoots. The whole "Brady is a normal guy" is the biggest crock of shit that Pats fans try to play off.
I'm with you on BB, Harrison, and Moss. I can't buy this at all though.

From EVERYONE WHO HAS TALKED ABOUT IT, Brady is the most diligent preparer on the most diligently prepared team in the NFL. He takes his job absurdly seriously, and by all accounts is a fantastic teammate. He has stuck up for his teammates in contract situations in the past - most noticeably Lawyer Milloy and Deion Branch - going against a management group that no one else on that team dares step up to.

I know someone who went to Michigan at the time Brady did, and by all accounts Brady was widely respected on campus as a tremendous human being, while everyone thought Drew Henson was a pompous douchebag.

Brady is insanely active in the Boston community, most noticeably donating his time to support Lawyer Milloy and Joe Andruzzi's charities, working with the Starlight Children's Foundation, and the ONE Campaign.

Tom certainly got a bad break on Bridget, as he dumped her before he knew about the pregnancy. It's fantastic that Peyton married his high school sweetheart, but Tom didn't and shouldn't be penalized because the best looking women in the world want to date him. Also, unlike a certain Cowboys QB, Brady does a fantastic job of keeping his high profile relationships out of the public eye - and you would never EVER see pictures of him in Mexico the week before a playoff game.

Unlike Peyton (who I do think is awesome and absolutely hilarious), Brady is not a media whore (sorry, Peyton is). Brady and his management team are effusive about their efforts to make sure Brady chooses the commercials, interviews, etc. that most represent his personality.

It's fantastic the Manning's run a camp in the off-season, and they should be commended for making it open to the public - but why on earth does that make it necessary for every QB to do that?

If all you're coming at Brady with is dating hot women and not holding a football camp, that's an embarassing argument.

Manning vs. Brady is still a legitimate debate in the eyes of many people - and while I think Brady is the best QB ever, I have no problems with people thinking Peyton is. What's ridiculous is to insinuate that Brady is a bad human being, or a bad role model. He's CERTAINLY neither.
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Post by Royals »

On Brady:
I'm really, REALLY tired of people talking crap about him and Moynihan. What was he supposed to do? Tell her to have an abortion? Put the kid up for adoption? Marry someone he had a bad relationship with and didn't want to be with? Yeah, that would have made for a wonderful home life for the kid. I'm sure baby Brady would have been thrilled to find out his/her parents only got married because Dad knocked up Mom.
As far as him being a normal guy... yeah, he is. What normal guy wouldn't be jumping out of his skin to date Moynihan or Bundchen? You'd have to be insane to turn down either one of those women!

Harrison:
Yeah, he plays dirty sometimes. Every team in the league has players that play dirty, from horsecollar tackles to chop-blocks. Harrison has a reputation for it so he's going to get called out on it more than anyone else, even if he isn't doing it more than anyone else. The perception and expectation means he's always under the microscope for it. Pedro used to get called a headhunter even long after any point where he deserved that reputation. If he hit someone, all you'd hear was "See Pedro's, a headhunter!" and the reputation lived on. The reality isn't even halfway living up to the reputation, but he's high profile, he's good and he's got the reputation so he's never, ever, going to shed it. He could go 3 whole seasons without a F penalty and he'd still be called dirty.
As far as HGH goes, he was suspended for a quarter of the season (far more than can be said of any MLB player) and was one of the very, very, very few who got caught on it. Shame on him for doing it and shame on every other player who does it and doesn't get caught. Give him this much credit though, he owned up to it and didn't try to make BS claims of plausible deniability or try to weasel out of the penalty. He got busted and took his punishment like a man.

Moss:
Moss was an a-hole in Oakland. I'm sure some of that was personal, some of it was dissatisfaction with the organization, with losing, etc, etc. Bottom line, I don't give a shit what he did in Oakland. He took a paycut to come here, he's busted his ass since he got here and he's been a model citizen. How much of that is wanting a big payday... I don't know. We'll find that out in the off-season. My gut says he stays in New England which will probably mean more money than he's getting now, but certainly less than he could get elsewhere.

Belichick:
He's got all the public personality of a www.fathead.com product. There's a reason for that. He tried being amiable in Cleveland and when things didn't go well, he got skewered by the press and run out of town to hitch a supposed ride back on the coattails of his mentor Parcells. Between that and having an idea how merciless and vicious the New England press can be (as well as the national media) why should the man put on some act to please them? Why should he humor their stupid questions?
Honestly, I think the guy is hilarious in his own way. He has a dry sense of humor filled with irony and sarcasm that you can see in his press conferences (though I've noticed that irony and sarcasm as forms of humor are rarely appreciated as much outside the east coast). When a reporter asks a stupid or obvious question or asks something he's made it clear he's not going to talk about, he doesn't pander to that stupidity (why should he?). Of course, the press hates this because he doesn't suck up to them like so many other coaches do (Parcells was famous for that while in New England) so they write about it and him in the most unflattering light they can. That's what the press does.

Smugness:
If you had Tom Brady as your QB then you would be "highly self-satisfied" as well. They almost moved our team to freakin Hartford fer crissake! The Pats were a complete joke for most of my life. For most of their existence in fact. The stadium was a complete dump. We called our own team "the Patsies". At our previous highpoint, Douchebag Parcells stuck a knife in the team's back, took our star RB and fled for the Jets before the confetti stopped falling on the Packers! Before that it was serving as the designated meal for the '85 Bears. I'm going to enjoy every moment, every game, because I KNOW how quickly it can, and will, end. I spent 22 years of my life as not just a fan pessimist, not just believing that the worst would happen, but that the best COULDN'T happen. What, I should feel bad for having that misery turned around? I get called smug for enjoying the fact that, like Job, every Pats (and Sox) fan has finally seen some reward for the misery heaped upon us for so long? Ha! Forget smugness, this is simply not taking our blessings for granted.
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Post by Pirates »

Z, I dunno if Peyton is a media whore but he is considered the most or 2nd most marketable player in all of sports.
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Post by Royals »

Brewers wrote:Z, I dunno if Peyton is a media whore but he is considered the most or 2nd most marketable player in all of sports.
I agree, he's HUGELY marketable. As are Brady and Derek Jeter. Curt Schilling isn't quite as marketable, but is certainly a mediawhore.
Being marketable isn't what makes you a media whore. Being indiscriminate in your marketing is. Thus the "whore" part.... anyone who pays gets to play.
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