More Retooling

Padres · Post by **Padres** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:14 pm

The Oakland A's today traded outfielder Nick Swisher to the Chicago White Sox for left-handed pitcher Gio Gonzalez, right-handed pitcher Fautino De Los Santos and outfielder Ryan Sweeney.

The Pale Hose outfield in 2008 is Q, Swisher and Dye ... Crede will be traded next ...

Mets · Post by **Mets** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:27 pm

I have to say I like the A's return quite a bit more...Billy Beane gets a solid return for an inconsistent, future DH.

Brewers · Post by **Brewers** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:28 pm

Just saw that on ESPN.com.....they're doing some major re-tooling this year. I guess you can't really blame them after the dismal year they had last year but you'd think pitching would be up there on the priority list somewhere.....

Padres · Post by **Padres** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:29 pm

BA is gonna' wish they had done the AL prospects first because they will have to rewrite the White Sox again - and my Sox are running out of prospects ...

Tigers · Post by **Tigers** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:40 pm

Rockies wrote:I have to say I like the A's return quite a bit more...Billy Beane gets a solid return for an inconsistent, future DH.

When you say "future DH" I hope you are refering to 10 or 12 years down the line when Swisher can't still play all three OF positions and/or 1b. He's probably going to end up starting in CF for the Pale Hose this season.

Yes, inconsistent for a guy who just turned 27 in November and has had to bat in a patchwork lineup full of scrubs for the past couple seasons....and despite his inconsistent power in that lineup, Swisher still managed to have his OBP increase in each of his first three seasons in the majors, reaching .381 last season.

I'd say things are looking very good for Swisher and Swisher owners after this trade.

Swisher will be moving from a nice pitchers park in Oakland to a much better hitters park in Chicago. He'll actually have some other hitters in the lineup that can generate offense so he won't be pitched around all the time and Swisher will be just entering his prime offensive years as a hitter at the age of 27.

Billy Beane did get good return with the three top prospects, but then it will be at least 2-3 years befor the A's are competing for a playoff spot, so it makes sense for the A's and if you are going to get a 27 year old switch hitter with power you are going to have to give up some solid young talent, though I believe Sweeney's star has lost a bit of its shine this season.

Yankees · Post by **Yankees** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:00 pm

Totally agree on Swisher - that guy can flat out play baseball. That lineup around him this year was ugly at best - with some protection and a better park, he's a 30 homer outfielder with a great obp.

Mets · Post by **Mets** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:40 pm

Mariners wrote:
Rockies wrote:I have to say I like the A's return quite a bit more...Billy Beane gets a solid return for an inconsistent, future DH.
When you say "future DH" I hope you are refering to 10 or 12 years down the line when Swisher can't still play all three OF positions and/or 1b. He's probably going to end up starting in CF for the Pale Hose this season.

His range in CF is Fr at best...he's a below average 1B...I guess he could be a league average RF. I was thinking when Thome's contract was up, they'd be better off using Swisher as the DH.

Tigers · Post by **Tigers** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:34 pm

I'll start by saying defensive stats are still very fungible and not the most reliable, however they are all we have at this point. Yes, he doesn't have the best range in the world in CF, but moving to the smaller park in Chicago will help (closer power alleys) and having watched him play a number of games in CF for the A's, his range isn't bad. He gets good jumps and takes good routes to balls, which makes up for some of his raw lack of speed /range.

Swisher is not a below average 1b and/or RFer. Many Oakland fans are silly enough to claim he's a gold glove caliber 1b, but they are obviously biased. He'd probably rate considerably better at all positions if he wasn't playing a third of a season's worth of games at each and was able to focus on one position. Regardless, he still had solid rankings in RF and 1b last season.

Giants · Post by **Giants** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:41 pm

Royals wrote:Totally agree on Swisher - that guy can flat out play baseball. That lineup around him this year was ugly at best - with some protection and a better park, he's a 30 homer outfielder with a great obp.

Swisher had protection last year. He is what he is, a high OBP guy who's not really a bat you can build a lineup around, and that's the prospect the A's were facing. As someone who watched him there his entire career, I can tell you he simply doesn't belong in CF, or really RF if it can be avoided. That being said, he's got a great eye, and is a really nice 6th place type hitter. He's really not a heart of the order guy, and I love the return Beane got for him. Hurts to see him go (though nowhere near as much as Giambi, Tejada, Hudson, Mulder, Thomas, and Haren), but if that's what they could get for him then I totally understand the move.

Tigers · Post by **Tigers** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:08 pm

Athletics wrote: Swisher had protection last year.

You gotta be joking?

He is what he is, a high OBP guy who's not really a bat you can build a lineup around, and that's the prospect the A's were facing.

That may be right, but putting a bunch of stiffs around him, doesn't exactly equal "building a lineup" around him.

As someone who watched him there his entire career, I can tell you he simply doesn't belong in CF, or really RF if it can be avoided. That being said, he's got a great eye, and is a really nice 6th place type hitter. He's really not a heart of the order guy,

I'd feel alot better about your opinion if you hadn't made that first comment above.

"....and I love the return Beane got for him. Hurts to see him go (though nowhere near as much as Giambi, Tejada, Hudson, Mulder, Thomas, and Haren), but if that's what they could get for him then I totally understand the move.

The two pitchers are really nice. Gio should be a solid middle rotation lefty and Fausto should either be a good closer or TOR starter if he figures out his changeup and how to pitch. Will be interesting to see if Sweeney adapts his hitting style any or continues to be stubborn. His prospect star took a huge hit last season, didn't even make BA's top 20 prospect list for the IL and it sounds like managers didn't have good things to say about him during their due diligence.

Giants · Post by **Giants** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:20 pm

Swisher typically had Buck (130 OPS+) hitting in front of him and Jack Cust (147 OPS+) hitting behind him. When Buck was hurt it was Ellis, who had a 110 OPS+, or Shannon Stewart and his .345 OBP. The 6-9 hitters sucked, and boy did they suck (Kendall, Crosby, etc.), but at the top/heart of the order where Swisher hit he was fine. Granted Thome and Konerko are better protection than Cust, but its not like he had Ray Durham and Bengie Molina behind him like the cleanup hitter across the bay.

Tigers · Post by **Tigers** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:03 pm

Athletics wrote:Swisher typically had Buck (130 OPS+) hitting in front of him and Jack Cust (147 OPS+) hitting behind him. When Buck was hurt it was Ellis, who had a 110 OPS+, or Shannon Stewart and his .345 OBP. The 6-9 hitters sucked, and boy did they suck (Kendall, Crosby, etc.), but at the top/heart of the order where Swisher hit he was fine. Granted Thome and Konerko are better protection than Cust, but its not like he had Ray Durham and Bengie Molina behind him like the cleanup hitter across the bay.

You are really pushing it with boom or bust Cust as dequate "protection". He wasn't up until May, then proceeded to hit 8 bombs in May, but also K'd in 44% of his AB's while hitting a monster .222. I'll give you, June and August.....Cust had monster months....but they were surrounded by July and September which were horrible months. You can't tell me teams didn't prefer to pitch to the roller coaster rookie Cust over Swisher in key situations. I know the M's did last season.

Cust hit well in the 3 spot last season....not so well in the 4 hole. Swisher hit in the 2 hole 35% of his AB's last season. So Cust provided him good protection for those 35% of his AB's.......

On that note, since Swisher spent the majority of his time in the #3 spot in the lineup last season (53%).

The 4th spot in the A's order generated a .766 OPS last season. (.252/.349/.418 line) Not exactly a statline that brings fear to the opposing teams pitching staff.

The 5th hitter was pretty bad for the A's too. Generated a 758 OPS on the season (.252/.331/.427 line).

As far as the hitters in front of Swisher providing "protection", well on most teams the leadoff hitter gets on base and is then a threat to steal, thus causing some concern on the opposing team which leads to them throwing more fastballs, going to a slide step, etc thus the hitter ......with the A's, not so much.

You are correct though, teams do fear the names of Jim Thome and Paul Konerko, much more so than that of Jack Cust.

Tigers · Post by **Tigers** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:05 pm

Getting traded out of Oakland is probably the best thing that could happen to Swisher at this point.

It is going to be very interesting to see how the change impacts his stats in 2008.

Giants · Post by **Giants** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:21 pm

You're right about the 4 hole numbers, but don't forget that they were dragged down by the struggles of Mike Piazza, who was injured early in the season after a brutal April, but whose name had the weight of a Thome/Konerko (OK maybe that's a little strong, but he certainly had more cache than the typical guy producing that sort of OPS). I'm not knocking Nick Swisher by any stretch, but I don't think this move is going to massively increase his value, I think it will stay where it is at its present, fairly high pace.

Padres · Post by **Padres** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:45 pm

Based on what I getting from my Chicago guys the Sox are going to have Cabrera lead off followed by Swisher, Thome, Konerko and Dye. He will see nothing but fastballs when OC is on base and he can't really be pitched around with Thome, Konerko and Dye following him. Plus he will playing half his games in the Cell. No way his numbers don't improve ...

Tigers · Post by **Tigers** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:46 pm

but don't forget that they were dragged down by the struggles of Mike Piazza,

Agreed, but Cust didn't hit well when he was in the 4 hole either. So its not like he was helping the cause there. He hit best for the 32 games he was in the 3 hole.

I'm not expecting a "massive" increase in value either, but with natural progression and improvement as he's just entering his prime along with moving to a better hitters park and a better lineup, its hard not to expect to see Swisher take another step forward.

Mets · Post by **Mets** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:23 pm

Accroding to DMB, Swisher's 2007 range ranking:

CF: fr
RF: av
1B: fr

Tigers · Post by **Tigers** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:34 am

Rockies wrote:Accroding to DMB, Swisher's 2007 range ranking:

CF: fr
RF: av
1B: fr

Yes, obviously DMB's projections have a significant bearing on this league, however in the real world, where guys with cool names like Hiram Bocachica don't have MLB stat lines like .304/.383/.518 (his DMB projection), end up playing in Japan. Don't mistake DMB projections with the real world.

Apparantely, Jim Callis doesn't agree with DMB or you.

By Jim Callis
January 3, 2008

E-mail Print

The Deal
The White Sox have tried to land a heavy-hitting outfielder throughout the offseason. They weren't able to corral Torii Hunter or Aaron Rowand, and it looked like the best they could do was strike a still-pending deal with Cuban Alexei Ramirez. But Chicago had more in store, pulling off the first trade of 2008 by acquiring Nick Swisher from the Athletics on Thursday in exchange for three minor leaguers: lefthander Gio Gonzalez, righthander Fautino de los Santos and outfielder Ryan Sweeney.

The Big Leaguers
Swisher, 27, was the first pick and became the best player from Oakland's ballyhooed "Moneyball" draft in 2002. He's a switch-hitter with power from both sides of the plate, good patience and the athleticism to play all three outfield positions and a Gold Glove-quality first base. Though he's better suited for an outfield corner, he may play center for the White Sox. Swisher batted .262/.381/.455 with 22 homers and 78 RBIs in 150 games last season, and he hit 35 longballs in 2006. He should fit nicely into the middle of Chicago's lineup, and while he's newly eligible for arbitration, he won't become a free agent until after the 2010 season. He's a career .251/.361/.464 hitter with 80 homers and 255 RBIs in 458 games.

Padres · Post by **Padres** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:02 am

[Again, there] is the massive park shift Swisher just enjoyed. McAfee Coliseum deflates HRs by 15% according to the Bill James Handbook. U.S. Cellular inflates them by 30%. This could result in a 20% increase in overall home run output. 27 becomes 32, 35 becomes 42. I think he's a legitimate 40 HR threat now, having hit 35 in '06.

http://www.rotoauthority.com/2008/01/ni ... er-pr.html

"I'm one of those guys who comes to the ballpark every day and loves being there," Swisher said on a media conference call. "I show up early and leave late. This is my life. This is the one thing I've wanted to do since I was 6 years old. Ã– I might be one of those who has a little too much fun."

The off-season acquisition of Swisher and veteran shortstop Orlando Cabrera certainly should change the atmosphere of the White Sox's clubhouse, and Cabrera could bat first with Swisher second in the lineup for manager Ozzie Guillen.

"I'm excited [to play for Guillen], I really am," Swisher said, anticipating an obvious change from Ken Macha and Bob Geren in Oakland. "Regardless of all the things I've heard, he's a player's manager. You definitely know where you stand with him. I'm a [no-nonsense] type of guy."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/cs ... 3798.story

McAfee Coliseum isn't an easy place to hit, and Swisher's splits over the last two years bear that out:

Home: .243/.374/.455
Road: .270/.379/.491

Meanwhile at the Cell in the last two years, Swisher has been 10-for-24.

Giants · Post by **Giants** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:56 am

It sure would have been nice to see Swisher play gold glove quality first base. On the other hand he might have, seeing as Rafael Palmeiro set the standard for Gold Glove play at that position. Him in CF was an adventure, I'd be stunned if Ozzie could stand it for more than half a season. Also worth noting that OC is just as likely to knock out another .308 OBP as he is to get over .330. I'm just saying that Billy Beane doesn't trade away MVPs, and he certainly doesn't make bad deals with Kenny Williams.

Mets · Post by **Mets** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:44 am

Athletics wrote: I'm just saying that Billy Beane doesn't trade away MVPs...

That's right..they all leave as free agents.

Does anyone know that kind of packages were available for Jason Giambi and Miquel Tejeda in their walk years?

Look what the got for Mulder & Hudson (Meyer could still put it together) compared to what he got for Zito, Giambi, Miggy, etc.

Giants · Post by **Giants** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:08 am

Billy held on to Miggy and Giambi because he knew they were pieces that could contribute to a championship team, and he wanted to make a run at it. He held on to Zito because I'm sure he got no real offer of substance, considering the lukewarm interest Zito generated in the offseason (the Giants outbid themselves by like 50 million for him, ridiculous). Beane holds on to guys who can help him win for as long as possible, as Dan Haren's owner that makes me nervous, but I have faith in the Swisher deal not biting him in the ass.

Mets · Post by **Mets** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:45 am

As a Mets fan, what are the A's thoughts on Blanton?

What is his true worth (MLB), and how available is he at this point?

In other words, what kinda deal would it take to trade him out of Oakland?

Giants · Post by **Giants** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:03 pm

I'm sure its about haggling over prospects. I keep hearing about Carlos Gomez and Kevin Mulvey as the guys Beane is targeting. One more good prospect and a mid-level guy on top of those two would definitely get it done. I'd be stunned if this deal isn't done, I think its being held up by Chad Gaudin's health questions.