Speech

[Royals]

Not hard to guess what this issue is about. Obviously, Aaron made a comment which was completely inappropriate to say the least. Aaron is a racist, everyone in the league knows it. He's free to hold whatever opinions he likes but expressing it in such a way is completely inappropriate. I don't know if we have any black members and I don't care, tolerating hateful, ignorant comments like that is simply wrong. I personally have warned Aaron that if he makes similar comments in the future that I will use any authority I have to have him removed from the league. That's a personal statement and I made that clear.

However, I think it is important that as a group, the ExCo makes it clear that the policies of the league are not going to allow such behavior.
Having just received the following reply from Aaron:

I can say whatever I want, whenever I want. I have that right, a little thing called the Constitution gives it to me. You don't run things anymore, so you can't kick me out on a whim just because you're pissed off at me and nobody would back you up and you know it. Second of all it was a joke and I think everyone knows that, hence the fried chicken comment. You need to get your panties out of a bunch. Seeing as how our business on this matter is concluded, I suggest you drop it

Clearly a single message from one member of the ExCo is not going to deter him. As a private organization, we have the right to restrict members language and conduct, just as the Boy Scouts have the legal right to exclude homosexuals. What's more, we have the obligation to foster an environment where no member or potential member will be concerned that they will be treated with intolerance due to the circumstances of their birth.

I am recommending an official warning from the ExCo to Aaron that such language and behavior will not be tolerated and a public statement to th league that such behavior from anyone will be met with an immediate response.
This is not without precedent, Joe (whom some of you may remember, others may not except from stories) made similar racist remarks in an old message board post. I warned him at that time that if he repeated the behavior he'd be removed from the league. To my recollection he did not repeat it.

[Cardinals]

I spoke to Aaron about it already, you said not to do it or else you won't "rest" until he's booted.

I think that's all that needs to be said and bringing further attention to it has no gain or positives for anybody involved. The second we start handing out warnings and calling ourself a private organization etc. is the second we lose a grip on what we are- a fantasy baseball league. We all know Aaron, we know he's racist for the most part, and I spoke to him about it already. What's the point of adding insult to injury, really?

There's no need for a public statement further than what you already said in that thread.

[Royals]

Public, i'd be willing to concede. However, from Aaron's own words, he does not take my comment seriously nor feel he should curb such behavior. An official statement, in private, making it clear such beavior is unacceptable does not seem like too much to ask.

[Cardinals]

I basically said that, just minus the 'threat' of kicking him out which is entirely unnecessary. I told him to cut it off, I'm pretty sure he'll listen to me, so i'm all for letting it be.

[Royals]

Well, what do we do if he does it again? Or if someone else does it? Tell them not to do it again with no disincentive to motivate them not to do it again and again and again?

[Cardinals]

They shouldn't need motivation. But yeah, just tell them to cut it out. There's no reason to make this a gigantic leaguewide, threat-laden ordeal. We all know each other well enough that motivation shouldn't be necessary.

[Royals]

I would also think we'd know each other well enough that no one would consider using racial or ethnic slurs, but apparently that isn't the case.
Warnings without potential consequences are nothing but meaningless lip service.

[Cardinals]

If I recall correctly you've said offensive things about Catholics too in the past to me with no warning or threat from a higher authority bestowed upon you.

As I said before, let it go. He's been spoken to by two different members of ExCo about it already. And I guarantee what I said to him is far more effective than a threat or a warning or getting a wedgie from something Aaron said.

[Royals]

Without getting into THAT discussion again, they are different situations at the very least due to one being a private conversation and the other being a very public declaration. There are other differences however, it's not a can of worms that can be, or should be, opened lightly (unless you REALLY want to go there, and I don't think you do any more than I do).

However, you and I have discussed this already at length, I'd like to hear the opinions of someone not named JP on the issue.

[Cardinals]

It doesn't matter if it's private or public. It's the same principal so sugar coat it anyway that you want to Bren. The differences are in the eye of the beholder, and if you're going to be against slurs or degrading speech vs. Blacks (which is a-ok, I'm not for any type of racial jokes or slurs that aren't light hearted and not malicious by any means) then don't be a hypocrite. Things you have said in the past about various groups have been in a far more serious light and a lot worse than "coons." So if you want to twist and weasel your way around this, go for it, but you're only looking like a hypocrite more and more with every post.

[Rangers]

Without getting into THAT discussion again, they are different situations at the very least due to one being a private conversation and the other being a very public declaration. There are other differences however, it's not a can of worms that can be, or should be, opened lightly (unless you REALLY want to go there, and I don't think you do any more than I do).

However, you and I have discussed this already at length, I'd like to hear the opinions of someone not named JP on the issue.

I don't see how Aaron saying something that ten people will read is all that more public than you saying something to someone you pretty much know will be offended by your comments.

[Royals]

It doesn't matter if it's private or public. It's the same principal so sugar coat it anyway that you want to Bren. The differences are in the eye of the beholder, and if you're going to be against slurs or degrading speech vs. Blacks (which is a-ok, I'm not for any type of racial jokes or slurs that aren't light hearted and not malicious by any means) then don't be a hypocrite. Things you have said in the past about various groups have been in a far more serious light and a lot worse than "coons." So if you want to twist and weasel your way around this, go for it, but you're only looking like a hypocrite more and more with every post.

If you want to get into it... that would not be a good idea. All I'll say until you indicate otherwise is that as much as you may have disliked what I said about the Catholic Church, it's rooted in historical fact and contemporary policies.

[Cardinals]

It doesn't matter if it's private or public. It's the same principal so sugar coat it anyway that you want to Bren. The differences are in the eye of the beholder, and if you're going to be against slurs or degrading speech vs. Blacks (which is a-ok, I'm not for any type of racial jokes or slurs that aren't light hearted and not malicious by any means) then don't be a hypocrite. Things you have said in the past about various groups have been in a far more serious light and a lot worse than "coons." So if you want to twist and weasel your way around this, go for it, but you're only looking like a hypocrite more and more with every post.

If you want to get into it... that would not be a good idea. All I'll say until you indicate otherwise is that as much as you may have disliked what I said about the Catholic Church, it's rooted in historical fact and contemporary policies.

How about you move on from this entire conversation and issue so you don't further make a fool of yourself?

[Padres]

For what it is worth I have dealt with this issue personally ... I do not believe a public statement from this body is necessary nor do I believe it to be practical as it is a very slippery slope. There are a number of offensive things said to and about people on these boards ... what some consider "funny" others may consider offensive.

In this particular instance, the manner in which the offensive word was used was objectionable. While it was the first time the word was used on these boards in that manner, it was not the first time that an objectionable word or phrase has been used on these boards.

We are better off simply policing situations like this on a personal basis. This is not the first time I have brought to a GM's attention that I think something was said in an uncalled for "highly charged" manner - nor, regrettably, do I believe it will be the last.

I do not believe we will see a repeat of this phrase from this GM. 'Nuff said.

[Royals]

It doesn't matter if it's private or public. It's the same principal so sugar coat it anyway that you want to Bren. The differences are in the eye of the beholder, and if you're going to be against slurs or degrading speech vs. Blacks (which is a-ok, I'm not for any type of racial jokes or slurs that aren't light hearted and not malicious by any means) then don't be a hypocrite. Things you have said in the past about various groups have been in a far more serious light and a lot worse than "coons." So if you want to twist and weasel your way around this, go for it, but you're only looking like a hypocrite more and more with every post.

If you want to get into it... that would not be a good idea. All I'll say until you indicate otherwise is that as much as you may have disliked what I said about the Catholic Church, it's rooted in historical fact and contemporary policies.

How about you move on from this entire conversation and issue so you don't further make a fool of yourself?

You brought it up, not me.
Discussion of historical occurences are very different than racist namecalling.

[Royals]

Jim,
We can all talk to Aaron individually, but that's very different from the league taking an official stand and issuing a statement to Aaron. I'm not even saying the ExCo has to threaten to kick him out (though I would personally work to do so if he made similar comments in the future), just issue an official warning to him that such behavior isn't acceptable instead of piecemeal comments.

i.e.
Aaron, while the league welcomes the free exchange of ideas, racially or ethnically derogatory remarks such as the one you made are not acceptable in this forum. You're free to hold whatever opinions you choose, however expressing such an opinion in such a way is not appropriate nor welcome and must not be repeated.
The ExCo

[Padres]

I have said all I intend to say about this subject both personally and as a member of the ExCo.

[Rangers]

I have said all I intend to say about this subject both personally and as a member of the ExCo.

Yeah, same here.

[Cardinals]

If you want to get into it... that would not be a good idea. All I'll say until you indicate otherwise is that as much as you may have disliked what I said about the Catholic Church, it's rooted in historical fact and contemporary policies.

How about you move on from this entire conversation and issue so you don't further make a fool of yourself?

You brought it up, not me.
Discussion of historical occurences are very different than racist namecalling.

Call it whatever you want Bren but I guarantee whatever you've said in the past in your very screwed up historical eyes is far more offensive than whatever anybody took from Aaron saying coon. But, I'm done here since you have no backing whatsoever so this thread is now moot.

[Royals]

1. I think you guys are making a big mistake. I know this for a fact because I know all about making big mistakes.
2. Such as most of my conversation with Aaron after the initial PM I sent him (which should have included the fact that I was making the statement about having him removed in order to remain in line with past policy i.e. Joe Kraut's comments and that it was not a matter of him being singled out)
3. JP, you're a whole 'nother ball of wax. If you want to talk it out since it's clearly on your mind, drop me a line, this forum isn't the place for it.
4. I'll get to 4 later...

[Dodgers]

I haven't even read Aaron's post yet, but JP filled me in briefly. It seems that handling Aaron is over and done with, but I see no problem with issuing a blanket league-wide reminder that language like that is offensive and unacceptable.