The ExCo, recognizing an oversight in allowing trading of draft picks during the untimed portion of the draft and wanting to ensure that all first round picks are treated appropriately in an equally fair manner, has decided that all first round picks may be traded and that there will be no time limit on any first round pick.
The timed portion of the draft will start with the end of the first round. At that point in time absolutely no draft picks may be traded and the clock will be strictly adhered to.
That being said, attempts to stall the draft for lengthy periods of time is both discourteous and annoying and should be avoided when possible.
Draft Pick Time Limit Change
-
Dodgers
- Site Admin
- Posts: 5783
- Joined: Fri May 30, 2003 1:00 am
- Location: Fort Lauderdale
- Name: Shawn Walsh
Nils, the "sanctity" is giving each GM an equal chance. Pick #30 is deserving because it means every GM had a shot at trading their first round pick, either before or while they were on the clock. It's all about fairness and you and Bren can argue this all you want, but there's not much spin you can put on it.
I would agree with you if the beginning of draft picking with no clock while allowing trading started at the same time. However, by the time we started allowing pick trading with the picks being made some teams already had 2 to 3 picks, I think someone even had 4. What are you going to do for those teams that already got screwed by not knowing they would have this "advantage"? Nothing. Some people are already going to get screwed, changing the rules now isn't going to solve that. Were you getting complaints from those people in the late 1st rd that they were getting the shaft? How many of them were holding on to their original pick? I'd like to hear more evidence to the reasoning behind this rule change than "it's a good idea."
-
Dodgers
- Site Admin
- Posts: 5783
- Joined: Fri May 30, 2003 1:00 am
- Location: Fort Lauderdale
- Name: Shawn Walsh
Nils, I know you've already seen the arguments Brennan put forth. http://ibc.poweralleycircuit.com/viewto ... ight=draft
By saying the clock starts January 4th regardless of where we are, we would be letting GMs who want to stall the draft control the way other teams are affected and frankly that's not fair. Just because Bren can sit on his pick for weeks doesn't mean it should hurt the GM of pick #19 who won't get a chance to trade his pick while he's on the clock (thus maximizing its value). It was afforded to earlier teams in the round and the ExCo feels that later teams in the same round should be afforded the same luxury.
Your point of teams who already traded their picks is valid, however I feel that GMs who already traded their pick have traded it for what they considered fair value and therefore aren't really being screwed.
By saying the clock starts January 4th regardless of where we are, we would be letting GMs who want to stall the draft control the way other teams are affected and frankly that's not fair. Just because Bren can sit on his pick for weeks doesn't mean it should hurt the GM of pick #19 who won't get a chance to trade his pick while he's on the clock (thus maximizing its value). It was afforded to earlier teams in the round and the ExCo feels that later teams in the same round should be afforded the same luxury.
Your point of teams who already traded their picks is valid, however I feel that GMs who already traded their pick have traded it for what they considered fair value and therefore aren't really being screwed.
[quote="Dodgers"]Nils, I know you've already seen the arguments Brennan put forth. http://ibc.poweralleycircuit.com/viewto ... ight=draft
By saying the clock starts January 4th regardless of where we are, we would be letting GMs who want to stall the draft control the way other teams are affected and frankly that's not fair. Just because Bren can sit on his pick for weeks doesn't mean it should hurt the GM of pick #19 who won't get a chance to trade his pick while he's on the clock (thus maximizing its value). It was afforded to earlier teams in the round and the ExCo feels that later teams in the same round should be afforded the same luxury.
Your point of teams who already traded their picks is valid, however I feel that GMs who already traded their pick have traded it for what they considered fair value and therefore aren't really being screwed.[/quote]
Aren't really being screwed? They are, because they probably were under the assumption they wouldn't have the option to trade their pick up until the time it was being picked. Now, you have changed the value of those picks and changed the trade. You can't add a rule that changes the value of a player/draft pick. Yes, people like Bren and JB are obviously taking advantage of that, but if you want to do something about it, do something to those taking advantage of it instead of doing something stupid like this.
There are just so many things wrong with this rule change I can't believe you all agreed to it. How will you enforce the "attempts to stall" tactics? Basically, you will put a time limit, right? I could get a first rd pick, say I am waiting to hear back from, say, Nate, and say I need to hear back from him because I don't want to draft someone. Will you limit that? Then you aren't allowing me to get the same advantage as everyone else. What if in that case the deal does happen, then that person then also wants to deal the trade? Hey! Lets make a new rule to limit that too!! Any more we can come up with?
I know getting any amount of power in this league seems to lead to the "I'm right and fuck you for questioning it" attitude and I'm making a pointless arguement. Perhaps just in the future you guys may think things over a bit before throwing around new rules.
By saying the clock starts January 4th regardless of where we are, we would be letting GMs who want to stall the draft control the way other teams are affected and frankly that's not fair. Just because Bren can sit on his pick for weeks doesn't mean it should hurt the GM of pick #19 who won't get a chance to trade his pick while he's on the clock (thus maximizing its value). It was afforded to earlier teams in the round and the ExCo feels that later teams in the same round should be afforded the same luxury.
Your point of teams who already traded their picks is valid, however I feel that GMs who already traded their pick have traded it for what they considered fair value and therefore aren't really being screwed.[/quote]
Aren't really being screwed? They are, because they probably were under the assumption they wouldn't have the option to trade their pick up until the time it was being picked. Now, you have changed the value of those picks and changed the trade. You can't add a rule that changes the value of a player/draft pick. Yes, people like Bren and JB are obviously taking advantage of that, but if you want to do something about it, do something to those taking advantage of it instead of doing something stupid like this.
There are just so many things wrong with this rule change I can't believe you all agreed to it. How will you enforce the "attempts to stall" tactics? Basically, you will put a time limit, right? I could get a first rd pick, say I am waiting to hear back from, say, Nate, and say I need to hear back from him because I don't want to draft someone. Will you limit that? Then you aren't allowing me to get the same advantage as everyone else. What if in that case the deal does happen, then that person then also wants to deal the trade? Hey! Lets make a new rule to limit that too!! Any more we can come up with?
I know getting any amount of power in this league seems to lead to the "I'm right and fuck you for questioning it" attitude and I'm making a pointless arguement. Perhaps just in the future you guys may think things over a bit before throwing around new rules.
-
Dodgers
- Site Admin
- Posts: 5783
- Joined: Fri May 30, 2003 1:00 am
- Location: Fort Lauderdale
- Name: Shawn Walsh
How do you propose we penalize someone who "took advantage of that", despite only acting as the rules allowed?
The value of the picks still aren't changing because previously you had to guess whether your pick would come before or after the timer started (and you were not allowed to trade picks). This is basically just saying that your pick came up before the timer started.
I'd like to think we have some decent fellas in the league who are courteous, but if Bren can hold up the draft, why shouldn't everyone else be allowed? As such, I don't care if we enforce "attempts to stall" at all. We'll just end up in March and we'll still be drafting and everyone will be pissed and it will be their own faults or the actions of a select few.
The value of the picks still aren't changing because previously you had to guess whether your pick would come before or after the timer started (and you were not allowed to trade picks). This is basically just saying that your pick came up before the timer started.
I'd like to think we have some decent fellas in the league who are courteous, but if Bren can hold up the draft, why shouldn't everyone else be allowed? As such, I don't care if we enforce "attempts to stall" at all. We'll just end up in March and we'll still be drafting and everyone will be pissed and it will be their own faults or the actions of a select few.
-
Rangers
- Site Admin
- Posts: 4048
- Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:00 am
- Location: Prosper, TX
- Name: Brett Perryman
Nils -
At least for myself, not wanting everyone's input is far from the case.
My attitude is that we set up rules with the intention that everyone would act in good faith, considering that there are only 30 of us and based on the assumption that there is some modicum of self respect and respect for others. Clearly there are intentions outside of that scope at play here, so the rest of us just need to get together, not get too excited, and as fairly as possible adjust the rules to account for these less than noble intentions.
In the big picture it's easy. We just will have time limits for all picks. For this year, the exco felt like the first measure that needed to be taken was that all first round picks were treated - generally - the same. At least as I understood it, that didn't rule out a time limit on all remaining picks. It just removed this January 4th transition that has been made a joke of sorts.
I think that possibly with very small exception we'd all like to approach the rest of the first round as fairly as possible and in such a manner that doesn't make a mockery of our very cool league. Therefore, as far as I'm concerned, I absolutely would like for the league as a whole to form a reasonable consensus here so that we can move on from this embarrassment and forget it as quickly as possible.
My suggestion is that, starting immediately (or giving the current pick however much additional time is deemed fair), we add an outer limit of something like five days. I throw out five days because anyone who's at all reasonable should be able to agree that that is plenty of time to do whatever the hell you need to do to take full advantage of your pick. It's an arbitrary length of time, and another number might be better. The guys in the exco felt like all first rounders should be treated fairly (with relationship to each other), and I think that maybe we should add something like this to help account for, let's just call it an "outlier" situation.
Also, I hope that everyone can be cool about this, work together for a quick solution, and not allow any negative feelings to spread or for this to become bigger than it needs to be or more frustrating than it already is. I know I (just in terms of dealing with it in within the exco, arguing, etc.) feel somewhat baited into some sort of battle here, and I've got no intention of falling for that.
At least for myself, not wanting everyone's input is far from the case.
My attitude is that we set up rules with the intention that everyone would act in good faith, considering that there are only 30 of us and based on the assumption that there is some modicum of self respect and respect for others. Clearly there are intentions outside of that scope at play here, so the rest of us just need to get together, not get too excited, and as fairly as possible adjust the rules to account for these less than noble intentions.
In the big picture it's easy. We just will have time limits for all picks. For this year, the exco felt like the first measure that needed to be taken was that all first round picks were treated - generally - the same. At least as I understood it, that didn't rule out a time limit on all remaining picks. It just removed this January 4th transition that has been made a joke of sorts.
I think that possibly with very small exception we'd all like to approach the rest of the first round as fairly as possible and in such a manner that doesn't make a mockery of our very cool league. Therefore, as far as I'm concerned, I absolutely would like for the league as a whole to form a reasonable consensus here so that we can move on from this embarrassment and forget it as quickly as possible.
My suggestion is that, starting immediately (or giving the current pick however much additional time is deemed fair), we add an outer limit of something like five days. I throw out five days because anyone who's at all reasonable should be able to agree that that is plenty of time to do whatever the hell you need to do to take full advantage of your pick. It's an arbitrary length of time, and another number might be better. The guys in the exco felt like all first rounders should be treated fairly (with relationship to each other), and I think that maybe we should add something like this to help account for, let's just call it an "outlier" situation.
Also, I hope that everyone can be cool about this, work together for a quick solution, and not allow any negative feelings to spread or for this to become bigger than it needs to be or more frustrating than it already is. I know I (just in terms of dealing with it in within the exco, arguing, etc.) feel somewhat baited into some sort of battle here, and I've got no intention of falling for that.
RedSox wrote:This all means you can lick my balls. I'll pick when the holidays are over and I've finished my player evaluations.Phillies wrote:so bren this all means you have to pick now, or else.
Could you act any more like a two year old? I mean really. You might as well just come out and say, "you guys didn't agree with me so I'm going to act like a bitch and hold the whole draft hostage because I can".
I figured you were more mature than to do something like this to the league you started, but apparently I was wrong.
RedSox wrote:What part of "Don't bug people to make their pick" do you retards who are bugging me NOT understand? Oh, but it's ok, it's just Bren...
You mean, "....its just Bren acting like a bitch."
If it wasn't so blatantly clear that you were actling like a spiteful two year old, you probably wouldn't be getting bugged.
Yes, I know, I am just stating the obvious.
No, you're not. You're uninformed, ignorant and acting as petulantly as you are under the delusion that I am. Want to know why I haven't picked? Two reasons stand out.
1. I'm not done scouting! I didn't look through BA's draft report cards or work them into my scouting 'document' (a big excel file). I realized this AFTER I made my last pick and I'm not making my next pick until that's done.
2. It was CHRISTMAS and I wasn't about to interrupt a single moment of my time with my family or friends for a Sim league. That's the reason WHY there's no time limit during this portion of the draft and the reason WHY you jackasses aren't supposed to be badgering people about making picks.
But y'know what? I don't need a reason, because you guy's aren't supposed to be badgering ANYONE about making their pick.
Y'know what's really mature? Badgering the guy who is usually the first person to STOP Gm's from being badgered about making their pick, to make a pick.
1. I'm not done scouting! I didn't look through BA's draft report cards or work them into my scouting 'document' (a big excel file). I realized this AFTER I made my last pick and I'm not making my next pick until that's done.
2. It was CHRISTMAS and I wasn't about to interrupt a single moment of my time with my family or friends for a Sim league. That's the reason WHY there's no time limit during this portion of the draft and the reason WHY you jackasses aren't supposed to be badgering people about making picks.
But y'know what? I don't need a reason, because you guy's aren't supposed to be badgering ANYONE about making their pick.
Y'know what's really mature? Badgering the guy who is usually the first person to STOP Gm's from being badgered about making their pick, to make a pick.
Btw, by creating this rule, you are breaking another one. From the official rules (which btw need to be updated to show the change from Commisioner to ExCo) is the statement: "...under no circumstances will a rule be initiated to benefit or favor one team over another." This rule clearly favors those who have one or more 1st rd picks over those who do not.
-
Rangers
- Site Admin
- Posts: 4048
- Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:00 am
- Location: Prosper, TX
- Name: Brett Perryman
Any thoughts on my post in response to your previous one? I'd like to settle/fix this rather than dwell on what's wrong with things as they are.Giants wrote:Btw, by creating this rule, you are breaking another one. From the official rules (which btw need to be updated to show the change from Commisioner to ExCo) is the statement: "...under no circumstances will a rule be initiated to benefit or favor one team over another." This rule clearly favors those who have one or more 1st rd picks over those who do not.
