Injuries

Guardians · Post by **Guardians** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:30 pm

Have been out of commission for a while, but checking in on injuries. Have we had any judgement calls to make? Is anyone tracking?

This seems obvious:

Mark Melancon underwent surgery Tuesday to repair the pronator muscle in his right forearm.

I saw Jimmy Nelson got shut down for the year.

Bradley Zimmer underwent surgery Tuesday to repair a fracture in the fourth metacarpal on his left hand.

Just didn't know if these were being posted anywhere.

Thanks,
PG

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:11 am

Out, out and out. Pretty easy so far. Fingers crossed it remains that way.

Padres · Post by **Padres** » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:20 pm

Agreed ... also good to see you back Pat.

Guardians · Post by **Guardians** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:03 pm

Thanks Jim.

Re: Ian's request for an appeal. Not sure there's an appeal process, but if we want to entertain...
I don't see the argument. He's having surgery. It's a little different than if the team sucks and they want to save him they sit him and say he would play if it mattered. Here, the Giants are saying he literally needs medical professionals cut into him to try to fix his ailment. This doesn't seem like a gray area.

Anyone else care to chime in?

Padres · Post by **Padres** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:30 pm

My chime is simple ... knife ... gone.

Fact is that he had surgery and he isn't able to pitch.

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:06 pm

I think he should pitch. In 2015 Lance Lynn got hurt in June. He pitched the rest of the year and in the playoffs and had surgery immediately after the season ended. I realize I'll be outvoted but given what all was said in the article I see Ian's point.

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:25 pm

I'm with Jim. He went under the knife. It's not like he has a sore elbow and they're shutting him down. His only cure was surgery. He's been horrible this year, he had trouble coming back and pitching back to back days. I doubt Bochy would even want to use him that much, but there's no point in trying to guess.

His injury needed surgery; he had surgery. He's out a few months. this isn't one I'm comfortable playing "well if..." with.

Again, nagging injuries? yeah, sure. let players play. but under the knife? meh.

Guardians · Post by **Guardians** » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:56 pm

Looks like a player lost for Nick:

Mike Napoli (ankle) said he doesn't expect to play again this season.
Napoli hasn't appeared in a game since September 14 due to a stress reaction in his right fibula and the Rangers have officially been eliminated from postseason contention. The veteran first baseman holds an $11 million club option (or $2.5 million buyout) for 2018.

Anyone see this a different way? If he had played recently, I could see this being a "team out of contention" thing, but this seems like injury that kept him out two weeks plus team out of contention.

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:35 pm

He's not played for 2 weeks, he's done

Padres · Post by **Padres** » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:28 pm

Cardinals wrote:He's not played for 2 weeks, he's done

Agreed

Dodgers · Post by **Dodgers** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:08 am

WhiteSox wrote:
Cardinals wrote:He's not played for 2 weeks, he's done
Agreed

Also agree

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:04 pm

If you guys want to sit Napoli down, I'm fine with it.

I think we should be careful of what we use as a barometer though. Napoli has been pretty terrible this year, so a gimpy Napoli is probably of minimal value to the Rangers. He had supposedly been available to pinch hit, but hadn't. Yeah, the Rangers were contending but I think they were pretenders all along, but that's neither here nor there.

Now there's Matt Adams, who is relegated to pinch hitting only. We've never said that we'd ever limit a guy's ability to play, so we can't just say Matt Adams can only pinch hit. That would be silly.

Adams is having a good year, Napoli is not. The Braves want to see what they have in Adams, the Rangers know what Napoli is.

Yeah, I get it that Adams has participated in actual MLB games recently, and is actually available, but I think we have to be careful of using this as a barometer for whether or not a guy can play. Again, if we want to bench Napoli, I am fine with it. I want to see guy play rather than sit when there's even a doubt, and I think if we say, "well a guy hasn't played in X number of days" isn't a good indicator of whether or not they would play if they were needed and a club had something to play for.

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:19 pm

Also, after reading this, I am changing my vote. I think Napoli should be in.

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/mlb ... 43566.html

Napoli said from the clubhouse that he has told team management he can play. His only limitation is dealing with the pain.

The injury was the result of overuse, not acute trauma, Daniels said.

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:21 pm

Cardinals wrote:He's not played for 2 weeks, he's done

Not to call you out Aaron, but how would you advocate for Napoli to be sat down and Melancon to play? Melancon actually had surgery to fix an issue.

I think we need to rethink our objective and how we go about solving the problem at hand.

Dodgers · Post by **Dodgers** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:25 pm

Pirates wrote:
Cardinals wrote:He's not played for 2 weeks, he's done
Not to call you out Aaron, but how would you advocate for Napoli to be sat down and Melancon to play? Melancon actually had surgery to fix an issue.

I think we need to rethink our objective and how we go about solving the problem at hand.

After reading that article, I also would change my vote to him being able to play. I should have done more research when it was initially posted.

I also agree that we need to (finally) come to some accepted guidelines on this.

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:00 pm

Yes he can play, that's fine. After seeing all that information I agree

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:16 pm

To elaborate on my previous point, I think, to me, the goal is to remove players who are clearly unable to play from determining a championship. I would rather not arbitrarily guess on who is capable of doing that and who isn't. We'll obviously have to apply judgment no matter what, but to me, the bar is to get the guys who shouldn't determine our championship out of the games.

Guys with minor injuries who could probably play, should play.

Obviously, it's the gray area in differentiating the two. But if we step back and realize what we're trying to do, I think we make it a bit easier and keeps it focused.

Guardians · Post by **Guardians** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:10 pm

I don't disagree. I think exco for years has stuck with an arbitrary process without much consistency. I agree the standard should be trying to allow guys to play.

The original Napoli info I found said he hasn't played for 2 weeks based on an injury and has now been shut down. That's why I presented it.

I think we probably need more stringent criteria, such as DL is always out, surgery is always out and everyone else is in. Ultimately, trying to create structure is going to present those weird issues where a guy isn't having surgery but the team says he'll be shut down for three months. But I think we need to figure it out.

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:54 pm

Agreed. I think we need to try to remove as much judgment as possible.