Movement

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:57 pm

Gudim is a Twins fan, and will take over Minnesota next year, moving Ian to Kansas City.

We've absent a Marlins GM currently, and the NL East is pretty terrible. Should we open up teams for relocation? Not sure if anybody would want to take the Marlins or not, or how anybody feels about this. I'm pretty indifferent myself.

Guardians · Post by **Guardians** » Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:32 pm

My only two cents is we should create a strategy for relocation rather than opening it up any time there's a vacancy. For instance, we know who the good GMs are and aren't. I would rather we try to secure solid GMs in each division rather than potentially creating disproportionate divisions if a good GM sees an opening for an easy playoff spot. I'm not suggesting I currently have the answer, but I would prefer a strategy approach rather than a case-by-case basis approach.

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:52 am

Yeah, I mean, I agree with that and that's sort of the crux of this thread. The NL East is bad. John is always mediocre, Brandon is always mediocre, Z is hyper active, but very mediocre every year.

Guardians · Post by **Guardians** » Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:18 am

Maybe as an exercise, we rank gms in our views of their effectiveness and try to devise a plan to get 2 in each division. Almost like our version of an NCAA bracket

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:23 am

I don't think that's really necessary.

Dodgers · Post by **Dodgers** » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:47 pm

I'm generally against movement and we have the rule on the books for allowing moving to favorite team but not necessarily competitive rebalancing.

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:20 pm

Nils once again expressed an interest in leaving the AL and going to Miami.

Guardians · Post by **Guardians** » Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:32 pm

Nils has only been in Oakland for two seasons (moved in the off season 2014). So, to me, he just got to the AL and there's no real motivation to move him since he has no real connection to Miami (ie: is a fan).

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:38 pm

All of that is true, but if we're looking at it from a competitive balance standpoint, he would be a good GM to add to the NL East, which is extremely weak after Dan left.

Guardians · Post by **Guardians** » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:05 pm

Well, I think before we address this specific issue we need to decide how to treat movement. Shawn's saying there's a rule on the books that doesn't allow teams moving for competitive balance. You're saying we should consider allowing a move for competitive balance.
So, I think we need to figure out how we stand on that and address the rule (Shawn, can you post?) first before deciding on Nils.

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:27 pm

Tigers wrote:Well, I think before we address this specific issue we need to decide how to treat movement. Shawn's saying there's a rule on the books that doesn't allow teams moving for competitive balance. You're saying we should consider allowing a move for competitive balance.
So, I think we need to figure out how we stand on that and address the rule (Shawn, can you post?) first before deciding on Nils.

"From this point forward, ExCo will be very reluctant to allow moves outside of your division except in the case of a favorite team opening up. If that occurs, then we will do the best to accomodate you. As for moves within your own division, if there is a legit reason for it then there really is no reason not to allow it, but we will still take the time to look at it. This does not apply to newbies who did not get any say in which team they would be. We will review those on a case by case basis. "

This is something from October 2007.

We seldom get requests to move.

First off, I'd like to remind us that this league is just for fun. If Nils wants to move to the NL, I don't really care either way. He's a competent GM who has been around since 2002. I don't really see the need to block the move just for the sake of it, especially when him moving to Miami benefits the league, in my opinion.

Can we honestly say that there's a second legitimately great GM in the NL East? Nils makes curious moves, but he's probably one of the five most accomplished GMs in the league.

Rangers · Post by **Rangers** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:10 pm

Most of his banners are from the first few years of the league and this year isn't posted but most banners:

17 - JP
17 - JB
12 - Nils
12 - Brett P
10 - Pat B
8 - Ken

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:43 pm

Rangers wrote:Most of his banners are from the first few years of the league and this year isn't posted but most banners:

17 - JP
17 - JB
12 - Nils
12 - Brett P
10 - Pat B
8 - Ken

+1 for me this year. Eat it JB!

Surprised to see Ken so high, but he is one of the few GMs who tries every single year to win. Good for him.

Rangers · Post by **Rangers** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:51 pm

Pirates wrote:
Rangers wrote:Most of his banners are from the first few years of the league and this year isn't posted but most banners:

17 - JP
17 - JB
12 - Nils
12 - Brett P
10 - Pat B
8 - Ken
+1 for me this year. Eat it JB!

Surprised to see Ken so high, but he is one of the few GMs who tries every single year to win. Good for him.

I don't think much about overall winning percentage given the way I chose to start, but I have to admit that Pat G, Ken, and others winning lots of banners does motivate me to not want to spend too long rebuilding.

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:47 pm

Nils would like to know if he'll be in Oakland or Miami this year, so we should vote.

Padres · Post by **Padres** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:04 pm

Pirates wrote:Nils would like to know if he'll be in Oakland or Miami this year, so we should vote.

Miami

Guardians · Post by **Guardians** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:07 pm

Oakland

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:26 pm

Miami

Dodgers · Post by **Dodgers** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:53 am

Sorry, I've been shirking all responsibility lately. On the plus side, I've done a 180 on this, even before seeing JP's mention of it above, I now feel that ultimately this league is for fun and challenging yourself, so if Nils thinks Miami will be better for him, then why should we stop him? I would support opening up the team movement rule, partially to create a little more difficulty for people who are trying to move for competitive reasons (Nils can move to Miami to try to get an easier playoff spot but he's shit out of luck if JP also decides he wants to move to the NLE). To that point, I don't think we should be considering competitive balance at all when considering these moves.

Also, looking back on the original thread, it's been 9 years since we made that rule and I think we had only really intended for it to apply for 2-3 years after that giant swap with 6 teams moving.

Guardians · Post by **Guardians** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:27 am

I don't totally disagree with the stance that if it makes things more fun, you can move. However, part of the strategy of the league is competing with your rivals...and matching up with your rivals. To that end, if your rivals are constantly changing (not saying movement is constant, but if it becomes so), that can be terribly frustrating. There's some good that comes from stability, in my opinion.

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:38 am

Some truth to that rivalry aspect, but not like Nils in two rebuilding years has built up any rivalry cache in Oakland.

Rangers · Post by **Rangers** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:50 am

In a vacuum I'm not really in favor of lots of movement every year. In addition to Pat's comment, there is more weight and meaning to things when a guy is synonymous with a team.

That said, neither of those outweighs the value of interest and activity by good GMs. So, if the feeling is that people moving increases the activity, I could see that.

I think the notion of fun is more instant gratification than more overall fun but that's just me.

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:39 am

With Brett preferring to abstain since Nils is in his division, it looks like 3-1 in favor of Nils going to Miami.

I'll announce it today.

Guardians · Post by **Guardians** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:19 pm

Pirates wrote:Some truth to that rivalry aspect, but not like Nils in two rebuilding years has built up any rivalry cache in Oakland.

Agree. My statement is more overarching in nature than Nils specifically. I agree with Brett here. If teams are shuffling around to get a stadium advantage, go where the opponents are weakest, etc., it can undermine the overall image of the league. I'm not saying that in some kind of buzzkill/serious kind of way. Personally, I like knowing who's in my division, their strengths and weaknesses, etc. The "fun" is planning how to beat them. If you tell me tomorrow the ALC is getting two new GMs/teams, that kinda makes things silly IMO. Just an example.

My overarching thought is we should create some type of policy on moving that gives a little more structure to how/why you can move or at least some standardized reasoning you have to have when seeking a change rather than just "I'd like to move."

If others agree, I can try to come up with a couple questions perhaps for a GM looking to move.

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:47 am

in a pretty typical move, Jag has requested to relocate to Oakland, since he 1.) was born near the o.co coliseum, 2.) it's as close to the Mariners as he'll ever get (his favorite team). In his own words:

"Been the Dbacks for over a decade and had no connection at all to them. I'm a A.L. West guy and I'll never get Seattle, Oakland is the closest other team to me (Giants were my NL team most of my life for that reason, but Jake had priority)."

Jared, our Milwaukee GM, has also requested to move to Oakland because he's an AL guy.