WOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:50 pm

The Sox are going to steamroll the Rox. All their mojo will be gone after sitting for so long, and their inexperience will show up.

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:04 am

While I'd love to see the Sox win it all, as I've been saying since the swept their NLDS series I think the Rockies are going to sweep all the way to a World Championship...
but tonight, that doesn't matter!
GO SAWX!

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:08 am

No way dude. A streak like that is all about rhythm. They've been sitting around thinking about it for over a week, and the Sox are rolling. The Rockies haven't played in a place like Fenway in October.

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:15 am

No matter how impressive the Rockies run was, they still beat the Phillies and Diamondbacks, who aren't nearly as good as the Angels and Indians. If the Red Sox can have their way with Sabathia and Fausto, I think they can handle the kids in the Rockies rotation.

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:17 am

I got a LONG look at the Rockies this season... at low points and high points... enthusiasm now is great, but be careful you don't underestimate them. Remember, in the span of a little more than a week they took 2/3 in Fenway and swept the Yankees in Coors earlier this season.

I honestly think Game 1 will be the biggest in the series. A Sox win could break the rockies' spirits. A Rockies win re-establishes their momentum and get's them past the single biggest hurdle, Josh Beckett.

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:30 am

RedSox wrote: enthusiasm now is great

Um, did you really just say that?

Anyway, I saw the Rockies win 2 out of 3 at Fenway, and I've watched them in the postseason as well. Winning a couple of regular season games against the Yankees and Red Sox is a whole different animal than winning a World Series. As the whole country has been caught up in the Rockies impressive streak, I think people have lost a little perspective. They are a good team who got hot against mediocre competition. For one, NONE of the NL teams have been to the playoffs recently (meaning it was pretty new for most of the guys on all three teams). For another, there just wasn't nearly as much pitching talent in the NL playoffs (Francis, Hamels, Webb, Zambrano?) this year as there was in the AL (Beckett, Sabathia, Carmona, Wang, Lackey, Escobar, Schilling, Weaver, etc.).

Could the Rockies make it an interesting series? Of course. You don't win 20 of 21 against anybody without being a good team. But if the Angels and Indians pitching staffs couldn't get Ortiz or Manny out, how are starters aged 26, 23 and 21 in their first postseason pitching at Fenway (with Youkilis to deal with instead of a pitcher) going to shut them down?

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:57 am

The Rockies were on a similar tear to the one they've been on when they faced the Sox earlier in the season. I told all my co-workers they were about to hit a wall... and I ended up eating those words. I think you're seriously underestimating the Rockies and the odds of the Sox steamrolling the Rox are, in my mind, the same as they are of getting steamrolled. This is not going to be an easy series for the Sox by any means. They may have been inexperienced to start the playoffs, but they're have two rounds to build that experience up and they're not going to be impressed by Fenway (they'll remember how they silenced the crowds before) or by Manny or Otiz... this is going to be a lot tougher than 2004 and objectively, I don't think the Sox come out on the winning side unfortunately.

Nationals · Post by **Nationals** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:59 am

I'm just getting the feeling that this will be one hell of a series, one way or another.

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:25 am

btw... scary thought...
G3: Coors: Dice-K
G4: Coors: Wakefield

I can't even imagine how Wake's knuckler will work in Coors' thin air.

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:35 am

RedSox wrote:The Rockies were on a similar tear to the one they've been on when they faced the Sox earlier in the season. I told all my co-workers they were about to hit a wall... and I ended up eating those words. I think you're seriously underestimating the Rockies and the odds of the Sox steamrolling the Rox are, in my mind, the same as they are of getting steamrolled. This is not going to be an easy series for the Sox by any means. They may have been inexperienced to start the playoffs, but they're have two rounds to build that experience up and they're not going to be impressed by Fenway (they'll remember how they silenced the crowds before) or by Manny or Otiz... this is going to be a lot tougher than 2004 and objectively, I don't think the Sox come out on the winning side unfortunately.

Yes, the Rockies are good enough that the Red Sox might not "steamroll" them as I said in all of my enthusiasm after their game 7 win, but, objectively, in their 7 total games of postseason experience the Rockies haven't really had to:

1. Beat good pitching with a track record of postseason success - what if they don't jump on Beckett or Schilling early in the game on the road? At the very least they simply haven't faced a SP as good as Beckett is right now.
2. Deal with a loss - doubtful that they'll sweep the Red Sox when Boston opens with 2 at home (this isn't the Phillies or DBacks). Who knows how the team will react when faced with their first loss in a month
3. Win a road game in an environment like Fenway (again, this is NOT the regular season) - it's a pretty intense environment with the fans right on top of you, particularly for a young player in his first postseason if he makes a costly error, or gives up a lead or something.
4. Play more than 4 games in a series - if the Red Sox win a game or two at home, then the Rockies will be in uncharted territory when they get to game 5
5. Play an AL team in the postseason - particularly one that works counts extremely well and forces opposing pitchers to use their entire arsenal and throw a lot of pitches, and requires them to consistently stay ahead in counts in order to have success. As bad as Julio Lugo has been, it's still a whole lot different facing professional hitters 1-9, and not having the saftey net of the pitcher coming up in the order.

I absolutely don't buy that after two series sweeps the Rockies are a grizzled veteran playoff team.

The Rockies are a great story and a very good team, but the Red Sox posted the best record in baseball in the superior league, then beat 2 of the top 4 or 5 teams in baseball in the Angels (though they were a little banged up) and Cleveland. As hot as the Rockies were before, I'd be very surprised if Colorado comes out in the same groove they were in after an 8 day layoff. They could lose a game before they shake off the rust, and all of a sudden they'd be in a situation almost nobody on the team has been in before.

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:37 am

Wakefield will probably be left out of the rotation, especially considering that he's not 100% healthy. I'd expect that he'll serve as an emergency pen, long relief type guy with Lester jumping into the rotation.

BlueJays · Post by **BlueJays** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:33 am

yup.. the rox didn't beat peavy or maddux or webb or any other teams ace's during this amazing run.

they are young, hungry, and underrated... reminds me of another series back in 1990 when everyone wrote off the NL champs that year too.

Yankees · Post by **Yankees** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:29 am

I hate the Red Sox with all of my being - but I have to admit the best moment of the post-season was when Pedroia almost swung out of his shoes, stood and watched the home run like he was Manny, then realized he might not have hit it as hard as he thought, took off like his butt was on fire for first and then started jogging again when it cleared the fence like nothing had happened...it was priceless little man baseball...

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:36 pm

+1 to what Nate said...

For all the guff Manny got on his HR admiration, he took far less time in his trot than Victor Martinez did the other day.

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:14 pm

Vegas does not seem to agree that being "hungry" will be enough, with the Red Sox as huge favorites at almost 2.5:1.

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:17 pm

And Vegas' odds are a reflection of betting patterns, i.e. public opinion.
They also had the Pats' line at +16.5 against a winless team when the Pats' smallest margin of victory all season was 17. Somehow The the worst team in the NFL was going to give the Pats a better fight than any other team had?

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:26 pm

To a degree. Those are huge odds when you consider that the Rockies have swept through the playoffs, so it seems a reflection of both who the general public and Vegas thinks will win the series.

Being "young and hungry" means nothing. Does that mean that they want to win more, and will play harder, than the Red Sox? Don't be ridiculous. For all the reasons I stated, the Red Sox should clearly be the favorites headed into the WS. Can the Rockies win? I'd be an idiot if I said it was impossible, especially in baseball where the margin between winning and losing can be so small, and luck can play a big part. But if you would like to lay a big bet down on Colorado, good luck.

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:34 pm

Being "Young and Hungry" seems to have served the Rockies well so far and allowed them to kick around some of the best SP in baseball.

Mets · Post by **Mets** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:49 pm

Rockies have the best ERA in the MLB since the All*Star Break (including home games)...so it's just a fancy last season run.

They're legit.

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:28 pm

Sure they're legit, or else they wouldn't be in the WS, but they haven't beaten an ace with a post-season track record this postseason (let alone beat one twice in a long series). Neither the Phillies or the DBacks had any starting pitching after their #1. Here are the starters each team has beaten:

COL:

Jake Peavy (6.2, 6 ER, 4 BB, 6 K - 3rd postseason start, 12 + ERA in previous 2) - 07 NL Cy candidate

Cole Hamels (6.2, 3 ER, 4 BB, 7 K - 1st postseason start)
Kyle Kendrick (terrible, 1st postseason start)
Jamie Moyer (6.0, 1 ER, 2 BB, 2K - 5 postseason starts)

Brandon Webb (6.0, 4 ER, 2 BB, 4 K - 1st postseason start) - 07 NL Cy candidate
Doug Davis (5.0, 1 ER, 4 BB, 5 K - 2nd postseason start)
Livan Hernandez (terrible in general, lots of postseason starts)
Micah Owings (3.2, 2 ER, 6 R - 1st postseason start)

BOS

John Lackey (7 postseason starts - 3.63 PS ERA incl. 2 ALCS + 1 WS) - 07 AL Cy candidate
Kelvim Escobar (8 PS app., 2 GS - 3.66 PS ERA) - 07 AL Cy candidate
Jered Weaver (1st PS start)

C.C. Sabathia (3rd + 4th PS starts) - AL Cy candidate
Fausto Carmona (3rd PS start, shut down NYY in 1st start) - AL Cy candidate
Jake Westbrook

There's really no comparison between the combined quality and experience of the SP the Sox beat this postseason and the SP the Rockies beat in their run through the playoffs. I mean, Kendrick, Moyer, Davis, Livan and Owings? All are either just bad pitchers, or very inexperienced (Owings + Kendrick). The Rockies bullpen has been great, but so had Cleveland's, and the Angels always have a good bullpen. As impressive as they've been, the Rockies haven't faced a team close to as good as the Red Sox this postseason (or as good as the Indians, Angels or Yankees, for that matter). They've also been sitting for over a week, and no matter what Clint Hurdle says, you know he'd rather have had his team playing again immediately to keep their momentum going.

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:30 pm

RedSox wrote:And Vegas' odds are a reflection of betting patterns, i.e. public opinion.
They also had the Pats' line at +16.5 against a winless team when the Pats' smallest margin of victory all season was 17. Somehow The the worst team in the NFL was going to give the Pats a better fight than any other team had?

The Dolphins always play well against the Patriots (until this week), even when they're terrible and the Pats are good.

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:18 pm

The past is past, the future is now, to quote Christopher Walken in Joe Dirt. I hope the Rockies win for the sake of the sanity of America, because Red Sox fans are annoying enough having 1 World Series title in the past 80 years, 2 will drive everyone else crazy

Dodgers · Post by **Dodgers** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:19 pm

As evidenced by this thread, Red Sox fans are annoying as hell, whether or not they win the world series.

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:22 pm

After 86 excruciating years and 26 Yankee championships, we're due for a handful of titles. I was hoping we could exorcise the demons of '86 by beating the Mets this year ('46 and '67 were avenged by beating the Cards). Might be a while before the Sox have the opportunity to avenge the '75 loss to the Reds though.

BlueJays · Post by **BlueJays** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:37 pm

Orioles wrote:Might be a while before the Sox have the opportunity to avenge the '75 loss to the Reds though.

then again it might be sooner than you think. the reds have one of the top farms in baseball right now with bailey, bruce, cueto & votto as the top tier... shelled out $ for a "name" manager(ugh) to "make a statement" - supposededly upping payroll "significantly"(we will see).. shedding bad contracts from former regimes.. & a couple shrewd trades(they have the talent to trade..), a few FA signings & suddenly its fun again.

I'm not scared of the cubs.. the cards aren't that good.. I like the brew crew.. astros suck. pirates got a long ways to go..

I like the reds chances provided they do what they say & its not just lip service & if they can make some astute moves... some ifs there for sure, but its a feasable jump not far off in a weak NLC.