Seahawks

[Mariners]

That is all!

[Astros]

Congrats to you and Ropers, heck of a season. Enjoy it before these guys all need extensions when their rookie deals expire and some leave via free agency. NFC West is going to be a slaughterhouse next year with the Rams having the #2 pick

[Giants]

Game went as well as I could have hoped, Manning set a meaningless record while being routed, Sherman was carted off (I don't usually root for injuries but fuck that guy), and I finally understand why Florida and Olé Miss fans chant SEC during Alabama National championship games. As I said a couple of weeks ago, the NFC Championship Game was the Super Bowl, and I look forward to a nice long dominant run by the NFC West.

[Tigers]

I think that game shows just how tough the NFC West defenses are. Denver ran into a buzz saw, the likes of which they had not seen this season. Seattle's offense did what it did all season....capitalize on turnovers, make a few big plays and control the ball.

Jake, you may not like Sherman, but Crabtree is as big a bitch as there is in the NFL. That dude is prime diva material.

Russell Wilson is as classy and mature a kid as there is in the NFL. Wise beyond his years.

Mr. Lombardi, welcome to Seattle. I think you are going to like it up here.

Go! Hawks!

[Royals]

Game went as well as I could have hoped, Manning set a meaningless record while being routed, Sherman was carted off (I don't usually root for injuries but fuck that guy), and I finally understand why Florida and Olé Miss fans chant SEC during Alabama National championship games. As I said a couple of weeks ago, the NFC Championship Game was the Super Bowl, and I look forward to a nice long dominant run by the NFC West.

I think you're downplaying the Manning choke-factor. Denver put up possibly the worst performance any team did all season against Seattle. Was Denver the worst team Seattle played? Not by a long shot. But we all know what Peyton Manning can be like in a big game.

"I finally understand why Florida and Olé Miss fans chant SEC during Alabama National championship games."
Because they're full of themselves.

Congrats to the Seahawks, great game (though I didn't bother to watch). I'd feel better about the Seahawks winning if Pete Carroll hadn't been such a shitbum to USC.

[Astros]

Do me a favor Bren, look up his playoff statistics for once, please. I know you talk out of your ass so much it has teeth by now

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... elog/post/

[Phillies]

I don't think there is a QB alive that could've played well last night. That D was unreal.

[Athletics]

I don't think there is a QB alive that could've played well last night. That D was unreal.

I wouldn't go that far, it was stout but plenty of the mistakes fall right on the bronco players.

The safety - missed snapped
The first Int - miss throw
The second Int - batted ball and we doesn't even come back for it hence the TD.
The Thomas fumble - poorly secured ball

Everything after that was just compounding errors and when in the second half you are down by that much they are only going to give you underneath.

I would say breaking point of that game was either the ret int TD or Thomas fumble, more likely the fumble since that was a good drive and that offense never got into any groove prior.

[Pirates]

The game was over after the first play. The safety gave all the momentum to Seattle and the only chance Denver had to get any back was to put any easy 3 on the board and go into the locker room at halftime with a little momentum and only down 22-3. However on top of John Fox going for it on 4th down there, the awful challenge earlier in the game and the fact he choose to NOT have Prater kick the ball out the back of the end zone (Prater has a touchback on 75% of kickoffs), is just confirmation that John Fox is easily out-coached time and time again. He was out-coached by Bill Bellichick in the super bowl once, and now it was Pete Carroll's turn.

[Guardians]

If anything good came out of the Super Bowl it was that I was able to accomplish some tasks around the house that I normally wouldn't have if I actually watched the game. It was so bad (maybe more so because I anticipated it would be good) that I lost interest early on. I'm happy for the Seahawks...always good to bring in a first championship. But Denver looked so frazzled and unable to get anything going. Their o-line, which has been a staple for more than a decade, seemed incapable of containing the rush, so they couldn't run and Manning threw several ducks that he normally would be able to hit. Seattle came out firing and they earned it. Good to see the NFC win the last 4/5.
By the way, did anyone remember Seattle was in the Super Bowl in 2006 vs. Pittsburgh, where their best receiver was Joe Jurevicius? Oh my gosh, I totally forgot about that name.

[Phillies]

I don't think there is a QB alive that could've played well last night. That D was unreal.

I wouldn't go that far, it was stout but plenty of the mistakes fall right on the bronco players.

The safety - missed snapped
The first Int - miss throw
The second Int - batted ball and we doesn't even come back for it hence the TD.
The Thomas fumble - poorly secured ball

Everything after that was just compounding errors and when in the second half you are down by that much they are only going to give you underneath.

I would say breaking point of that game was either the ret int TD or Thomas fumble, more likely the fumble since that was a good drive and that offense never got into any groove prior.

The safety only led to 5 points. A high powered offense like the Broncos should be able to overcome that. Yea the first INT was a bad throw, but the Hawks players are always in position to make a play. That's why they are where they are. Julius Thomas was covered well, and Chancellor was right there to make the play.

As for the second INT, how do you not credit the defense for getting to Manning? It wasn't a batted ball, the lineman (can't remember which) got to Peyton and hit his arm causing the interception. Good D caused this one.

The Thomas fumble depends on how you look at it I suppose. Thomas was inexplicably switching the ball from his right to left with Maxwell standing right in front of him. Maxwell saw it and punched it out. Looked like a smart play, but you could obviously blame Thomas for ball security.

My point is people blaming Peyton (choke artist is the word) doesn't make sense to me. The Seahawks took away those short crossing patterns and screens for the most part. It forced Peyton to make throws he wasn't comfortable with and he looked awful. Plus they totally abandoned the run game, which wasn't unexpected, but certainly helped the Seahawks D play for pass.

[Royals]

The game was over after the first play. The safety gave all the momentum to Seattle and the only chance Denver had to get any back was to put any easy 3 on the board and go into the locker room at halftime with a little momentum and only down 22-3. However on top of John Fox going for it on 4th down there, the awful challenge earlier in the game and the fact he choose to NOT have Prater kick the ball out the back of the end zone (Prater has a touchback on 75% of kickoffs), is just confirmation that John Fox is easily out-coached time and time again. He was out-coached by Bill Bellichick in the super bowl once, and now it was Pete Carroll's turn.

Completely agreed on all counts. The safety not only handed momentum to Seattle, it showed how easily the Broncos could be rattled (because you don't make that mistake if you're not rattled), for the Seattle fans in the stands it was like throwing blood in the water.

And Fox. John Fox is a good coach. But he's not a GREAT coach and as you said, he's someone who can be out-coached without an excess of effort. That's part of why I think Manning is a great QB for Fox, he does a lot of coaching at the line. But Manning's record of trouble in big games got another tick last night and Fox lost some of the support from his usual crutch.

[Royals]

I don't think there is a QB alive that could've played well last night. That D was unreal.

I would love to have seen how Brady could have done. Not even necessarily last night in the Superbowl, I wish the Pats had played Seattle during the regular season to see how it would have gone. Would he have folded like Peyday? Or would he have risen to the occasion like Luck did? I believe it would have been the latter, but we'll never know.

[Royals]

My point is people blaming Peyton (choke artist is the word) doesn't make sense to me.

1. The QB always gets a disprorportionate amount of the blame/credit (and arguably the salaries). That's part of being the QB.

2. When you have a record of not coming through in the big games and you are leading a historic offense against a very good but not necessarily historic defense (based on the full season) and you get beat 43-8... the term choke artist is gonna come up, and it's not going to be an unfair application. Do you believe that had this been a regular season game that it would have gone down this way? I certainly don't.

[Yankees]

Then don't be among the people that give the QB a disproportionate amount of blame/credit. Be the logical one who understands that, above and beyond any other sport, the importance of all the people on the roster and the preparation from an entire coaching staff is paramount to what happens in a football game.

If you want to look exactly at what Manning's challenges were (constantly collapsing pocket, inability to fire the ball into tight spaces), I'd rather have had Tony Romo than Brady, Manning, or Brees.

Or just follow the crowd and say whatever makes Brady better in your own head, and just be another unintelligent noisemaker...

[Pirates]

Also, on a slightly different note, kudos to the SB MVP voters for not defaulting and giving the MVP to a QB.

[Royals]

Also, on a slightly different note, kudos to the SB MVP voters for not defaulting and giving the MVP to a QB.

Amen.

[Astros]

Then don't be among the people that give the QB a disproportionate amount of blame/credit. Be the logical one who understands that, above and beyond any other sport, the importance of all the people on the roster and the preparation from an entire coaching staff is paramount to what happens in a football game.

If you want to look exactly at what Manning's challenges were (constantly collapsing pocket, inability to fire the ball into tight spaces), I'd rather have had Tony Romo than Brady, Manning, or Brees.

Or just follow the crowd and say whatever makes Brady better in your own head, and just be another unintelligent noisemaker...

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-a ... a-and-dyar

Some advanced metrics, but once again, ignore anything that proves you wrong

[Yankees]

Hold off on a comeback Bren, I'll write it for you:

Blah, blah, blah, record. Blah, blah something to do with football being an individual sport not a team sport. Blah, blah something about actual numbers not passing the "eye test". Blah, blah something you heard Jim Rome say. And, to close, LOUD NOISES!!!

[Padres]

That is all!

Sez it all ...

[Royals]

Then don't be among the people that give the QB a disproportionate amount of blame/credit. Be the logical one who understands that, above and beyond any other sport, the importance of all the people on the roster and the preparation from an entire coaching staff is paramount to what happens in a football game.

If you want to look exactly at what Manning's challenges were (constantly collapsing pocket, inability to fire the ball into tight spaces), I'd rather have had Tony Romo than Brady, Manning, or Brees.

Or just follow the crowd and say whatever makes Brady better in your own head, and just be another unintelligent noisemaker...

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-a ... a-and-dyar

Some advanced metrics, but once again, ignore anything that proves you wrong

While you reach for anything possible to prove that Manning hasn't been a playoff choker from college to present day. Are you going to complain again about how weak the Colts defenses around Manning were while ignoring that the defense was weak because the team had no money after giving Manning the biggest contract in NFL history and paying for all his offensive toys? When Manning wins, all you (and so many others) talk about is Manning. When he loses, it's because the defense wasn't good enough, or the O line wasn't good enough or the opposing defense was overwhelming. It's never in terms of Peyton Manning stunk, even when he does. Whether it's in college, in Indy or in Denver, Peyton has always blown the big game. Oh, correction, he won one Superbowl... out of thirteen times qualifying for the playoffs. What's the saying? The sun occasionally shines even on a dog's ass? Peyton Manning is a great regular season QB, possibly the best ever, but he falls apart in the playoffs, this is something he has done throughout his career.

As for DYAR, wow. Yards. HA! You really want to get that one-dimensional?

Seattle didn't win the Superbowl 340 yards to Denver's 306. Manning had 280 yards to Wilson's 206. By that measure, Denver made a game of it and Peyton Manning played well. We all know that's not true though. Seattle won with 43 points to Denver's 8, Manning had two costly interceptions and a fumble and Denver didn't get a first down until the second quarter.

All the talking heads on TV talk about who has the best or worst offenses or defense based on yards. Idiots. Points are what win or lose games. The ability to turn yards, large or small, into points or prevent them from turning into points are skills teams have demonstrated the ability to do consistently over and over again.

In Peyton Manning's lengthy career, he has a losing record in the playoffs and will retire as the losingest QB in NFL history. That's not an accident and it's not a matter of him not getting credit, getting screwed or any other excuse. It's because he is a bad playoff QB.

[Astros]

One more time, LOOK AT HIS PLAYOFF STATS. I've linked them in a previous post. I know that might require you to think critically instead of just accepting your preconceived notions, and maybe even get your head out of your ass, but just take a look at them. Take a look at things like strength of opponent, etc. For a guy with a career QB rating of 90 in the playoffs, with stats directly in line with Tom Brady's, if not better in most categories, I don't see where your point is. Oh that's right, Brett already said it, football isn't a team game, eye test, etc, whatever needs to validate your "Peyton is a choker" argument. I have a DVD of the 2006 AFC title game I'd be glad to burn for you that kills that argument. He's also the only QB in NFL history to beat the top 3 defenses in the league in one postseason.

Tom Brady is a .500 playoff QB post Spygate, how about we talk about that? He's clearly the only reason his teams lost those games, because he's a choker and he only won the Super Bowls he did because he's a cheater! See, I can argue just like you except that mine actually has a little validity behind it (as much as Pats fans want to dismiss it, which I'm sure you do, but you don't want to let anyone who played in the steroid era in the HOF because you're a fucking hypocrite), but arguing like that is like judging pitchers by wins and hitters by RBI. Only idiots do it

[Royals]

Thanks for responding, it gives me a chance to point out some huge holes in the so-called analysis you linked. As glaring omissions go, I don't think you could get more obvious than completely failing to account for Home field or the weather. That's like trying to do statistical analysis in baseball without accounting for park factor. So either the analyst is a completely inept dipshit, or he was trying to prove a biased point, one that favors QBs that play in domes and otherwise favorable weather for passing. Hmmm...

I knew your Brady inferiority complex would pop up eventually. Brady's had two trips to the Super Bowl in the last six seasons, including a season where he went 16-0 in the regular season, breaking just about every record in the book, demonstrating beyond any doubt that Spygate was completely overblown. Taping signals is perfectly legal, you just can't do it from the sideline. BFD. And unlike Peyton Manning, Brady was able to walk off the field in the fourth quarter of both of those games.

[Guardians]

Thanks for responding, it gives me a chance to point out some huge holes in the so-called analysis you linked. As glaring omissions go, I don't think you could get more obvious than completely failing to account for Home field or the weather. That's like trying to do statistical analysis in baseball without accounting for park factor. So either the analyst is a completely inept dipshit, or he was trying to prove a biased point, one that favors QBs that play in domes and otherwise favorable weather for passing. Hmmm...

I knew your Brady inferiority complex would pop up eventually. Brady's had two trips to the Super Bowl in the last six seasons, including a season where he went 16-0 in the regular season, breaking just about every record in the book, demonstrating beyond any doubt that Spygate was completely overblown. Taping signals is perfectly legal, you just can't do it from the sideline. BFD. And unlike Peyton Manning, Brady was able to walk off the field in the fourth quarter of both of those games.

Eli 2.
Tom 0.
That is all.

[Giants]

List of Quarterbacks who are considered among the greatest of all time including Manning and Brady (in no particular order forgive me if I've omitted a guy or 2):

Joe Montana
Johnny Unitas
Roger Staubach
Dan Marino
Terry Bradshaw
Bart Starr
John Elway
Steve Young
Brett Favre

List of said quarterbacks to be both blown out in a Super Bowl and to lose a Super Bowl via 4th quarter interception return for a touchdown:
Peyton Manning

The problem with using advanced football stats is that simply put football outsiders performance metrics do not correlate with wins anywhere near as well as baseball and basketball stats do for all the reasons you guys have mentioned to try and mitigate Manning's culpability in his playoff losses (not to mention the permanent small sample size problem football has).

Advanced stats in any sport are only interesting insomuch as they are better predictors of future performance, old school stats are much better descriptors of what happened in the past (I can see a home run, I can't see .003 WAR or whatever the appropriate number will be depending on the park and the base/out state). Descriptively, Manning absolutely shit the bed in the two worst ways possible for a quarterback in 2 separate Super Bowls, and descriptively Manning has been the least successful great QB in the playoffs since Dan Marino. Might he turn it around Elway style some day? Sure, advanced metrics would seem to predict that (as well as they can predict anything). But he has to accomplish it before you can give him credit for it.