Any AL GMs itchin to head east?

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:03 am

Not sure what the current policies are as far as franchise-swapping, but I'm interested in fleeing the AL East with my tail between my legs for the AL Central or West. Besides, a little team-shuffling might improve competitive balance a bit (depending on who was moving).

If there's a GM in the ALC or ALW who's interested in Baltimore, let me know. Also, an NL Central GM has expressed interest to me in the O's, so if you're interested in moving to the senior circuit and the powers-that-be give us the go ahead, we might be able to shift all 3 clubs around. I'd prefer to stick in the AL though, since I've built my lineup around David Ortiz.

C'mon, I know somebody out there is more up to the challenge of the AL Beast than I was. Anyone wanna take a shot at unseating the NY/Boston two-headed monster in 08? For those who are in full rebuilding mode, the ALE is perfect. You can rack up top draft picks while your team gets batted around by the big boys the next couple of seasons, and then when the Yanks, Sox and Jays get older, you'll be ready to challenge with Tampa to take over the top.

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:47 am

Be fair, we're a 3-headed monster, Pat B is currently leading the division.

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:15 pm

RedSox wrote:Be fair, we're a 3-headed monster, Pat B is currently leading the division.

So he is. Guess I hadn't looked at the standings in a little while. Too frustrating. The Jays have absolutely owned me this season. It'll be tough for Pat to keep it up for '08 w/out some creative dealing though. He's got a handful of key guys who could probably tell you where they were when we landed on the moon.

Starting 8/2 I won 10 straight, then immediately got massacred at NY and Toronto winning 1 of 6. Of course after leaving Skydome the O's immediately won 10 of 13, including my current 8-game streak. I'm 20 games over .500 and 12 games out of first place. Ugh.

Yankees · Post by **Yankees** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:41 pm

Wow - getting massacred for a couple years - REAL compelling case to move to the AL Beast...

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:22 pm

Royals wrote:Wow - getting massacred for a couple years - REAL compelling case to move to the AL Beast...

Unfortunately that's the best I got. Thrill of the challenge, etc. Beat the best.

I do think it would make the league a little more fun if we dispersed the talent a little bit though. Obviously nobody wants to volunteer to get beat up "for the good of the league." It's the public goods problem (or something like that).

I mean, take a look at the run differentials. The top 4 run differentials are all in the AL East (+239, +305, +238, +126). On the other hand, 4 of the 5 teams in the ALC have a negative run differential all at or near -100 (-104, -98, -158, -180). There are no races in the other divisions, and the Wild Card race only involves ALE teams. Minnesota is in first place by 20 games, and Oakland's 1st in the west by 16 games. Snore.

Yankees · Post by **Yankees** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:34 pm

Here's my solution to the disparity:
1) Have the team's that want to move submit their names
2) Get a full list of all team's moving to moving owners
3) Have each team rank their ultimate destinations
4) Place each team in those destinations - if team's submit the same destination, best record the previous year gets the team
5) Team's that choose to move can NOT move again for 3 years

This would be my short, simple solution - and would provide all the newbies the opportunity to get to a preferred team...

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:38 pm

As I have stated before, I would be willing to go to Baltimore. I would be the NL Central team if anybody wanted Houston. That said, I'm not completely sold on it, but I would be willing to go to Baltimore to take down Bren and JB. Im not fully committed, but I highly doubt anybody else would have the testicular fortitude to go to the AL East, so if anybody is a pussah and wants the NL Central instead of Baltimore, perhaps something can be arranged. Everything still has to go through the ExCo though but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:47 pm

Royals wrote:Here's my solution to the disparity:
1) Have the team's that want to move submit their names
2) Get a full list of all team's moving to moving owners
3) Have each team rank their ultimate destinations
4) Place each team in those destinations - if team's submit the same destination, best record the previous year gets the team
5) Team's that choose to move can NOT move again for 3 years

This would be my short, simple solution - and would provide all the newbies the opportunity to get to a preferred team...

That seems like a reasonable solution. Requiring teams to stay put for 3 years would be good, but I guess it all depends on how many teams would want to move, and how many would end up actually moving, b/c we'd want to avoid having a large number of teams moving every year. What if (in addition to the guidelines you posted above) the Ex-Co determined at the end of each season whether the net effect of allowing teams to move would be positive or negative for the league? Ideally there would be no movement most seasons. Kind of thinking out loud here, but a limit on the total number of moves could be imposed so that newer GMs (more likely to have bad teams) will have a shot at a team they want, and we'll also be able to tweak the competition in each division.

The other possibility I was thinking of (and probably should have brought up before new GMs were handed their teams) was that when we have an open team the commissioner or the Ex-Co could look at the openings and decide if it would be beneficial to move any teams around before teams are handed over to new GMs so that newbies would occaisionally come in with the understanding that they would be moving teams at the end of the year. Of course, this would require that when the need arises we have one or two veteran GMs willing to move.

Yankees · Post by **Yankees** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:52 pm

Actually, my thought was that since we have 30 GM's right now we don't revisit moving for 3 years after this...

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:01 pm

Royals wrote:Actually, my thought was that since we have 30 GM's right now we don't revisit moving for 3 years after this...

That sounds pretty good. And 3 seasons would probably be enough time to determine whether there's a real imbalance that needs to be addressed, or if we think it'll even out on it's own.

DBacks · Post by **DBacks** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:22 pm

I've got a week off, and I'm pretty bored, so if the league does decide to go with the system Z suggested, I can volunteer to receive the emails and coordinate everything with one of the boys in charge. I'm sure there are more than just two GMs out there itching to move and I don't think that some reshuffling would be the worst thing for competitive balance.

Anyway, just volunteering if needed.

Giants · Post by **Giants** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:38 am

Whether or not there is an open team is a moot point. After seeing what's going on with the D-Rays it's hard to imagine that it would be fair to stick another newbie in that division as it stands. At the end of the day the problem is that there are 3 great GMs who all have their favorite team and happen to be in that division. Unless you can talk any of them into giving up those teams or giving up some of their players there's nothing to be done in the short term. Honestly Dan, the whole "I want to move out of the division but I need to stay in the AL so I can keep Ortiz is weak. Trade him, try him at 1B (where he rates even if its poor) or whatever and move to Houston, or stick it out in the ALE. I thought we had this discussion last year about how we were done with all the moving except in the case of a favorite team opening up.

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:11 am

Athletics wrote:Whether or not there is an open team is a moot point. After seeing what's going on with the D-Rays it's hard to imagine that it would be fair to stick another newbie in that division as it stands. At the end of the day the problem is that there are 3 great GMs who all have their favorite team and happen to be in that division. Unless you can talk any of them into giving up those teams or giving up some of their players there's nothing to be done in the short term. Honestly Dan, the whole "I want to move out of the division but I need to stay in the AL so I can keep Ortiz is weak. Trade him, try him at 1B (where he rates even if its poor) or whatever and move to Houston, or stick it out in the ALE. I thought we had this discussion last year about how we were done with all the moving except in the case of a favorite team opening up.

1. I have no interest whatsoever in the NL. I've built my team as an AL team around a slugging DH, and competitive balance or not I'm not willing to move if I have to trade my best player (and favorite player) in order to do so.

2. The only "weak" argument here would be that it is somehow not a colossal joke that 2 of the 3 divisions were practically wrapped up by the All-Star break and that for most of the AL there is no divisional race. While it's nice to have a 16 game lead heading into September with a mediocre squad, it probably won't do a lot for people's enjoyment and activity level if there's such an absurd disparity in talent between divisions, and therefore no divisional races. Look at the standings. Minnesota has a 20 game lead over the #2 team in the central.

3. In case you haven't picked it up from the thread above, there's a competitive balance issue here. We don't have a salary cap or free agency, or any of the measures that help to even these things out. What we do have is a situation where 3 of the 4 teams in the AL West are rebuilding, which means yours wins the division by default. That sounds about as "fair" as putting a newbie in a tough division. Sticking my team in the NL wouldn't make a whole lot of sense b/c the NL doesn't have as severe a talent imbalance as the AL. Sure, it would probably be good if one of those NL Central clubs moved to the NLE, but at least 2 of the 3 divisions in the NL have actual races.

I'm not sure how you can argue that we should stay put and not move any teams around, given the ridiculous way the standings look right now, and how difficult it is for bad teams to turn good quickly.

RedSox · Post by **RedSox** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:39 am

What is going on with the DevilRays?

Personally, I'd welcome getting a 90+ win team out of the ALE. Three 100 win teams is enough for any division.

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:01 am

Just to brush up a little more clearer on my stance here:

I'm OK in Houston. I don't feel the pressing need to leave since I think I'll compete heavily next year. That said, I hate the Astros in reality. That's irrelevant though. My willingness to move to Baltimore is because I know nobody else will. Vacek's been whooped up on with a playoff calibur team there for a few years and if he wants the opportunity to bounce, that's fine. I'll gladly take Baltimore in a 3 city swap if nobody wants to go the East. I'm not afraid of NYY or BOS or TOR.

Dodgers · Post by **Dodgers** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:17 am

Fact is moving JP to ALE is totally pointless since he plans to compete there. While I realize that there's competitive imbalance (and ExCo has talked about how to solve this as well), unless we move a rebuilding team there (which we should have done before bringing in those new GMs, and maybe we'll do it if one of them drops), movement would be pointless. I'm anti-movement in general, though pro-competitive balance, so kind of torn on which side to choose. However, like changing roster limits, change for the sake of change may not be worth making, but if we can get a rebuilding team into Baltimore I'm all for that.

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:27 am

Dodgers wrote:unless we move a rebuilding team there (which we should have done before bringing in those new GMs, and maybe we'll do it if one of them drops)

I was mistakenly under the impression that this was the plan in the first place, and Baltimore would be swapped with Texas or Cleveland before the new guys came in. I think that would probably make the most sense.

Rockies · Post by **Rockies** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:23 pm

Since Dan wants to stay in the AL, and JP is willing to go to the beast in the east, and also since I have no real DH threat I'm clinging to, I'd be willing to take the Astros in a 3 team move. JP to Orioles, Vacek to Rangers, me to Houston.

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:49 pm

From a competitive balance standpoint this looks like it would work. My team is probably the most ready to contend of the 3, and the ALW could use an immediate contender. JP's squad is on the verge (though knowing him he could have a totally different roster in a month), so his team might jump into the picture when one of the other ALE teams takes a step back in a year or so, and Seth's team is probably a step behind JPs, making it a good fit for the NL's strongest division.

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:58 pm

I can do that.

Padres · Post by **Padres** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:09 pm

For what it is worth, I am willing to move to any division if necessary to help bring this issue to closure ...

Reds · Post by **Reds** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:27 pm

Maybe we should just do a complete reshuffling of anyone who feels like changing and create a sign-up sheet.

Hey Nate, did you want to leave Cincy?

Tigers · Post by **Tigers** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:39 pm

Pretty funny that the league seems to have this issue come up every offseason. Wasn't it last offseason that we pretty much decided the constant team moving was going to stop? Not a shocker that we've already got teams clamoring to move again, already.

Anyways, since we appear to be throwing last offseason's verdict out the window again, already, it makes sense, that if the league is going to allow team movement this offseason, then we should have one chance for whoever wants to move to put their name into the pot, list their top three choices and move everyone at once and then officially, once again, put a halt to the offseason merry-go-round for a 2-3 year period.

In other words, here is another vote for Z's idea listed above.

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:48 pm

Mariners wrote:Pretty funny that the league seems to have this issue come up every offseason. Wasn't it last offseason that we pretty much decided the constant team moving was going to stop? Not a shocker that we've already got teams clamoring to move again, already.

Anyways, since we appear to be throwing last offseason's verdict out the window again, already, it makes sense, that if the league is going to allow team movement this offseason, then we should have one chance for whoever wants to move to put their name into the pot, list their top three choices and move everyone at once and then officially, once again, put a halt to the offseason merry-go-round for a 2-3 year period.

I'm still on board with Z's suggestion for a process that he posted above, as well as freezing franchise moves for 3 years after one move. We'd have to figure out who all the GMs are who are willing to move, then maybe have the ex-co, or maybe a committee combined of both NL and AL GMs not moving, to try to get any moves to suit the purpose of improving competitive balance.

I do think though that this may end up being a necessary evil b/c w/out a salary system to allow quicker turnarounds, we have to have some other way of evening out the league every couple of years.

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:08 pm

With Jim willing to move it makes things pretty interesting.

Since currently heralded as the top two divisions the ALE/NLC, (though we'll see how much longer those divisions hold these titles), wouldn't it make sense to drop teams out of both of them to other divisions? The ALW and NLE are both weaker than the ALE/NLC and NLW/ALC In my opinion. If Jim is willing to move to Baltimore (bless his soul) then I could take the Mets and strengthen the NL East where Seth can rebuild in Houston still and Dan gets to remain in Texas.

Convoluted, but a thought. It would accomplish the teams that wish to move as well as serve out competitive balance issues here.