New GMs/Minidraft Stuff
Moderator: Executive Committee
New GMs/Minidraft Stuff
We need a league policy about this, if a new member comes into the league but can't do anything with the roster than what's the point of having a new member. I believe the precedent is that he maintains the option to go into the minidraft but I've never seen anyone blocked from trading. Hell I traded Vernon Wells before entering a minidraft when I first joined the league. I think if something is imminent then it makes sense to call a trading moratorium, but it shouldn't last more than a week. What are the thoughts here?
Sorry, that should have been in the original email. normally 30 days, particularly if another team looked like it would open up. In this case, since that would take him to the trade deadline I would recommend 2 weeks.
As I mentioned to JP, there are a lot of things I always did as commish automatically (i.e. new GM's were required to use the official league email, even if they had it forwarded elsewhere) that weren't written down because they didn't necessarily need to be in the rules and I just always did it.
Another example is that I've been requiring new GM's for a while now to email me from a verifiable email address when they join the league (i.e. a college email address). It's something I did to make sure they were who they said they were.
No new GM is going to suffer for having to wait 2-4 weeks to make trades, if anything it gives them the opportunity to gauge trade values and look around the league with less pressure to get a deal done, as I'm sure some of our established GM's may unintentionally do.
As I mentioned to JP, there are a lot of things I always did as commish automatically (i.e. new GM's were required to use the official league email, even if they had it forwarded elsewhere) that weren't written down because they didn't necessarily need to be in the rules and I just always did it.
Another example is that I've been requiring new GM's for a while now to email me from a verifiable email address when they join the league (i.e. a college email address). It's something I did to make sure they were who they said they were.
No new GM is going to suffer for having to wait 2-4 weeks to make trades, if anything it gives them the opportunity to gauge trade values and look around the league with less pressure to get a deal done, as I'm sure some of our established GM's may unintentionally do.
2. Minidrafts for New Members
A. All new members may be subject to a minidraft. In the minidraft, all players from the teams belonging to the new members will be placed into a pool. The new members will then draft from that pool to assemble their team. Draft order will be determined at random by the Commissioner prior to the draft.
When recruiting new members I would first have them email me from a verifiable email address, as I mentioned above. I occasionally waived this, but not usually.
I'd tell them that they were selecting a franchise, not a roster as almost every new team goes into a minidraft and I avoided having single empty rosters when bringing in new GM's.
I'd have Shawn set them up with an OOPSS account and set them up myself with an IBC email account (this was not optional). I'd go into the already existing email account and delete all old messages, chats, spam and empty the trash bin so it was completely clean. I'd also reset the password to something easy for the new GM. They could set it to forward to another email address if they chose to, but as a receiving email it wasn't optional.
I'd warn them that they would be approached almost immediately for certain of their players, to not rush into deals and that I strongly recommended that they take a month to get comfortable in the league before making any big moves in order to get a grasp of the market, or the sim.
Finally I'd tell them that their membership would be up for full league approval after 6 months (I often forgot to actually hold the vote though) and that for the first 3 months their trades would be subject to closer scrutiny and higher standards than established GM's. Also that trading with the GM who brought them into the league would be closely monitored and subject to even higher standards.
That was the standard operating procedure with new GM's. I sometimes deviated from it on a case by case basis. i.e. forgetting to hold the vote or just not bothering if the GM was clearly a strong asset to the league.
A. All new members may be subject to a minidraft. In the minidraft, all players from the teams belonging to the new members will be placed into a pool. The new members will then draft from that pool to assemble their team. Draft order will be determined at random by the Commissioner prior to the draft.
When recruiting new members I would first have them email me from a verifiable email address, as I mentioned above. I occasionally waived this, but not usually.
I'd tell them that they were selecting a franchise, not a roster as almost every new team goes into a minidraft and I avoided having single empty rosters when bringing in new GM's.
I'd have Shawn set them up with an OOPSS account and set them up myself with an IBC email account (this was not optional). I'd go into the already existing email account and delete all old messages, chats, spam and empty the trash bin so it was completely clean. I'd also reset the password to something easy for the new GM. They could set it to forward to another email address if they chose to, but as a receiving email it wasn't optional.
I'd warn them that they would be approached almost immediately for certain of their players, to not rush into deals and that I strongly recommended that they take a month to get comfortable in the league before making any big moves in order to get a grasp of the market, or the sim.
Finally I'd tell them that their membership would be up for full league approval after 6 months (I often forgot to actually hold the vote though) and that for the first 3 months their trades would be subject to closer scrutiny and higher standards than established GM's. Also that trading with the GM who brought them into the league would be closely monitored and subject to even higher standards.
That was the standard operating procedure with new GM's. I sometimes deviated from it on a case by case basis. i.e. forgetting to hold the vote or just not bothering if the GM was clearly a strong asset to the league.
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Dodgers
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I've pushed for it but never got the time to do or someone else to do a default intro that would be sent to all new GMs, something along the lines of what Bren is saying but that's basically a standard introduction to the league, maybe not the minor things, but major things like injuries, sim schedule, lineups, etc.
One other thing, for a while now I've only been bringing in GM's who either had the sim already or who assured me they would get it soon. this is for multiple reasons.
1. Having the sim generally suggests the GM is more serious about being part of the league.
2. We've been encouraging h2h play and bringing in GM's without the sim runs counterintuitive to that.
3. Every GM in the league has the sim (except Brett Z) and not having the sim is going to put a new GM at an immediate disadvantage.
1. Having the sim generally suggests the GM is more serious about being part of the league.
2. We've been encouraging h2h play and bringing in GM's without the sim runs counterintuitive to that.
3. Every GM in the league has the sim (except Brett Z) and not having the sim is going to put a new GM at an immediate disadvantage.
Ah, see, I was under the impression that this was a joke, because only a nutcase would seriously consider bringing Josh back. He's a manipulative liar and cheat.
A few months into the first season (pre-ASB), when all draft pick trading was illegal, he made a deal with a fellow GM and got it approved, what he didn't tell anyone was that he was also swapping first round draft picks, something he didn't reveal until the draft. I should have booted him right then and there but the league was still very shaky and we needed GM's so I didn't. Big mistake.
Josh quit or resigned several more times until it came to a point where one of his trades was up for review. He did everything in his power to coerce the trade reviewers to approve his trade up to making a point of saying to the reviewers that if his trade wasn't approved, he would quit. There's a difference between arguing for a trade and coercion and Josh crossed it bigtime. Josh was well-liked but that kind of behavior is completely and totally unacceptable so I booted him and told him he was never allowed back. Ever. He swore the league would fall apart without him and GM's would resign over him getting the boot, that he was being treated unfairly. Obviously nothing of the sort happened. He's nothing less than the most insulting, divisive and personally offensive GM we've ever had.
I spent five years running this league, I consider the switch to the ExCo to be a very good thing. There is only one thing I do not consider negotiable or acceptable and that is Josh returning to the league. He was banned from the league permanently and for good reason. Bringing him back would be nothing less than a spit in my face.
A few months into the first season (pre-ASB), when all draft pick trading was illegal, he made a deal with a fellow GM and got it approved, what he didn't tell anyone was that he was also swapping first round draft picks, something he didn't reveal until the draft. I should have booted him right then and there but the league was still very shaky and we needed GM's so I didn't. Big mistake.
Josh quit or resigned several more times until it came to a point where one of his trades was up for review. He did everything in his power to coerce the trade reviewers to approve his trade up to making a point of saying to the reviewers that if his trade wasn't approved, he would quit. There's a difference between arguing for a trade and coercion and Josh crossed it bigtime. Josh was well-liked but that kind of behavior is completely and totally unacceptable so I booted him and told him he was never allowed back. Ever. He swore the league would fall apart without him and GM's would resign over him getting the boot, that he was being treated unfairly. Obviously nothing of the sort happened. He's nothing less than the most insulting, divisive and personally offensive GM we've ever had.
I spent five years running this league, I consider the switch to the ExCo to be a very good thing. There is only one thing I do not consider negotiable or acceptable and that is Josh returning to the league. He was banned from the league permanently and for good reason. Bringing him back would be nothing less than a spit in my face.
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Rangers
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First of all, any info on those other three candidates, Bren?
Second, I generally support Josh joining any league I'm in because I enjoy watching him put together his team. Unlike some other guys who are successful he doesn't build exclusively via obvious rip-offs (not that he doesn't do them, just that he's capable of doing it another way). And in a vacuum I would vote for him to be added.
...Having said that, and I haven't told JP or Shawn or anyone that I've come to this conclusion, but just thinking about it, I think that unlike certain rules issues that Bren has strong feelings about and I frankly disagree with him on (the draft pick stuff, etc), I think that it is appropriate for Bren's indefinite suspension of Josh to stand, regardless of the other five of our attitudes toward Josh. After thinking about it for several minutes, I don't feel like this is something that we really have the right to overturn. Just my thoughts.
Second, I generally support Josh joining any league I'm in because I enjoy watching him put together his team. Unlike some other guys who are successful he doesn't build exclusively via obvious rip-offs (not that he doesn't do them, just that he's capable of doing it another way). And in a vacuum I would vote for him to be added.
...Having said that, and I haven't told JP or Shawn or anyone that I've come to this conclusion, but just thinking about it, I think that unlike certain rules issues that Bren has strong feelings about and I frankly disagree with him on (the draft pick stuff, etc), I think that it is appropriate for Bren's indefinite suspension of Josh to stand, regardless of the other five of our attitudes toward Josh. After thinking about it for several minutes, I don't feel like this is something that we really have the right to overturn. Just my thoughts.
One of the three just told me he "Didn't want to join our gay ass league" so i told him to "Have fun getting out the gerbil we planted up his ass". So that's one.
The first guy is a Tigers fan from Minorleagueball.com,
The third is a recommendation from Dan Vacek from a while ago but I haven't been able to get in touch with Dan in order to ask him about it. I have the guy's email somewhere but still looking.
There is also a fourth option, the guy Texas recommended on the Waiting List thread.
The first guy is a Tigers fan from Minorleagueball.com,
The third is a recommendation from Dan Vacek from a while ago but I haven't been able to get in touch with Dan in order to ask him about it. I have the guy's email somewhere but still looking.
There is also a fourth option, the guy Texas recommended on the Waiting List thread.
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Padres
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I can vouch for Kelly. Good guy - straight up. Works hard to improve his teams.RedSox wrote:Kelly has the sim and provided me with a non-generic email address. Tha in conjunction with his endorsements gets him my full support until he decides to not submit a roster for 4 months.
I am off to work - today is a mowing day. I will vote on Josh later. I have re-reading some old e-mails (the Mets mailbox was not cleaned out prior to my getting it ... currently I am leaning in favor of supporting Bren's position on this particular issue. More later.
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Dodgers
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I have several points to offer, most are directed for Bren, but I'm sure they might help Jim decide or someone else to change their mind or something.
1. In regards to what Brett said, I also thought long and hard about whether this is something that we shouldn't mess with, however I don't see anything in the rules that says Josh is banned, I'm pretty sure that's just a personal thing that Bren said while he was commish and decided who comes in that Josh wouldn't be allowed back. Making certain 'rules' unchangable and everything else changable is not what the ExCo is for, I was pretty sure we had access to change everything.
2. In my opinion, if allowed, Josh is on the list ahead of these other guys. I sure as hell wasn't aware there was a 5 man waiting list, because all I see is Jagger's guy on the board. If there's available GMs why shouldn't everyone know about them? They weren't posted on the board or anywhere, all of a sudden they're ahead in line now that Josh wants in (and he does, which brings me to point #3).
3. In talking to him yesterday as well as the fact that I've talked to him pretty much non-stop since before he quit IBC, not only is he excited about the team, but the guy has matured (It's been what almost 3 years now?). Hell, 5 minutes after I breached the subject he was asking me for a DB, 5 minutes later he was asking me for the non-sim rosters so he could start to plan out his minidraft strategy. If you want when I get home I can post the AIM dialog from yesterday, it was quite revealing IMO to how much he wants the team. He's even fine with the below-AA rule you put into place after he left (which frankly JP and I think needs to be slightly changed but that's for another topic).
4. Basically the only thing that would be holding up Josh joining is Bren's sole objection (Jim, while your opinion does obviously matter, you also don't have any first hand knowledge of the situation so it's hard for you to form an opinion, rather just an educated one based on Bren's rantings over the years).
5. Is it me or are we looking for quality GMs? Josh not only would bring knowledge, talent and activity, but at least the guy will fucking post once in a while too. I'm sick of bringing in GMs who have no desire to be part of the league culture, they just want to play fantasy baseball. Josh gets involved, finds out the little shit about people and whether he mocks it or not at least he seems to give a damn sometimes. When's the last time we had an actual debate on the board over baseball, let alone anything? You telling me Josh isn't going to help bring some action back? IMO right now we have a bunch of stone faced GMs who are trolling along just waiting for the next boxes, instead of actually going out and doing something.
6. Is it me or did we not agree a while back that we should stop trying to bring in prospect-addicted GMs? If not an official edict, it was at least a consensus reached amongst several of us. Bringing guys from minorleagueball is fine and all, but I'm pretty sure everyone of them has been a mold of Brett P and Jagger, only not even close to as talented or open to changing up their team.
7. We already know what we're gonna get from Josh. Sure he might make some offcolor or pointed comments, but Bren don't forget that you booted Paul because he couldn't handle that same stuff so it's not like you're not condoning it, at least we know Josh will not only be able to handle it but he might give some back too.
8. Bren please don't start with rules violations being a reason, we've had a bunch of them now, including yourself, and I don't think anyone's really been given any serious punishments, let alone banishment (besides Chrash which was obviously different). Also, I'm pretty sure JP's quit a couple times, no? (Or am I hallucinating?) I just don't see the reason to give Josh a chance, the league is a lot different now than it used to be.
That all being said, if you're going to run off and cry, or throw objections like crazy, or feel like you don't want to play anymore, or don't feel like you're going to want to be part of the league anymore, just say so and I'll stop arguing now, but so far all you've shown me is that you're still holding a lengthy grudge and as a result won't bend. Though I might continue debating just because it's fun and something to do. Also, might we consider taking some league input on this as well, I mean if we have 29 GMs for and 1 against I realize that the 1 is Bren, but since when does one person's personal grudge completely make a decision for the whole league?
1. In regards to what Brett said, I also thought long and hard about whether this is something that we shouldn't mess with, however I don't see anything in the rules that says Josh is banned, I'm pretty sure that's just a personal thing that Bren said while he was commish and decided who comes in that Josh wouldn't be allowed back. Making certain 'rules' unchangable and everything else changable is not what the ExCo is for, I was pretty sure we had access to change everything.
2. In my opinion, if allowed, Josh is on the list ahead of these other guys. I sure as hell wasn't aware there was a 5 man waiting list, because all I see is Jagger's guy on the board. If there's available GMs why shouldn't everyone know about them? They weren't posted on the board or anywhere, all of a sudden they're ahead in line now that Josh wants in (and he does, which brings me to point #3).
3. In talking to him yesterday as well as the fact that I've talked to him pretty much non-stop since before he quit IBC, not only is he excited about the team, but the guy has matured (It's been what almost 3 years now?). Hell, 5 minutes after I breached the subject he was asking me for a DB, 5 minutes later he was asking me for the non-sim rosters so he could start to plan out his minidraft strategy. If you want when I get home I can post the AIM dialog from yesterday, it was quite revealing IMO to how much he wants the team. He's even fine with the below-AA rule you put into place after he left (which frankly JP and I think needs to be slightly changed but that's for another topic).
4. Basically the only thing that would be holding up Josh joining is Bren's sole objection (Jim, while your opinion does obviously matter, you also don't have any first hand knowledge of the situation so it's hard for you to form an opinion, rather just an educated one based on Bren's rantings over the years).
5. Is it me or are we looking for quality GMs? Josh not only would bring knowledge, talent and activity, but at least the guy will fucking post once in a while too. I'm sick of bringing in GMs who have no desire to be part of the league culture, they just want to play fantasy baseball. Josh gets involved, finds out the little shit about people and whether he mocks it or not at least he seems to give a damn sometimes. When's the last time we had an actual debate on the board over baseball, let alone anything? You telling me Josh isn't going to help bring some action back? IMO right now we have a bunch of stone faced GMs who are trolling along just waiting for the next boxes, instead of actually going out and doing something.
6. Is it me or did we not agree a while back that we should stop trying to bring in prospect-addicted GMs? If not an official edict, it was at least a consensus reached amongst several of us. Bringing guys from minorleagueball is fine and all, but I'm pretty sure everyone of them has been a mold of Brett P and Jagger, only not even close to as talented or open to changing up their team.
7. We already know what we're gonna get from Josh. Sure he might make some offcolor or pointed comments, but Bren don't forget that you booted Paul because he couldn't handle that same stuff so it's not like you're not condoning it, at least we know Josh will not only be able to handle it but he might give some back too.
8. Bren please don't start with rules violations being a reason, we've had a bunch of them now, including yourself, and I don't think anyone's really been given any serious punishments, let alone banishment (besides Chrash which was obviously different). Also, I'm pretty sure JP's quit a couple times, no? (Or am I hallucinating?) I just don't see the reason to give Josh a chance, the league is a lot different now than it used to be.
That all being said, if you're going to run off and cry, or throw objections like crazy, or feel like you don't want to play anymore, or don't feel like you're going to want to be part of the league anymore, just say so and I'll stop arguing now, but so far all you've shown me is that you're still holding a lengthy grudge and as a result won't bend. Though I might continue debating just because it's fun and something to do. Also, might we consider taking some league input on this as well, I mean if we have 29 GMs for and 1 against I realize that the 1 is Bren, but since when does one person's personal grudge completely make a decision for the whole league?
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Dodgers
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Figured I'd post this as well, just to support my previous arguments...say the word Bren:
SPW26yankees: was going to see if you might want to rejoin ibc (we're under a new leadership method) if you had time
ddrgreenthumbb: i seen that. i think i might
SPW26yankees: no kidding? we're actually looking for a gm
ddrgreenthumbb: i seen you were
ddrgreenthumbb: i would do it
SPW26yankees: you going to have enough time?
ddrgreenthumbb: yup, with the baby i'm stuck upstairs all night
ddrgreenthumbb: is it one of the minidraft teams?
SPW26yankees: ok, i gotta run it by the exco
SPW26yankees: yea
ddrgreenthumbb: cool let me know
SPW26yankees: will do, you'll love the way we do shit
ddrgreenthumbb: i'll be back in a few
ddrgreenthumbb: i'm stuck micromanaging the real tampa team in a league. i need a team
SPW26yankees: your ibc division is going to be pretty solid though
ddrgreenthumbb: what team, who is in the division?
SPW26yankees: you'd get pittsburgh, nate aaron jp
ddrgreenthumbb: i was pit when i got booted right
SPW26yankees: honestly i don't remember
ddrgreenthumbb: i think so
ddrgreenthumbb: almost 100
SPW26yankees: ?
ddrgreenthumbb: %
SPW26yankees: ah
ddrgreenthumbb: how many teams minidrafting?
SPW26yankees: 3
SPW26yankees: one is 57-59, other 56-57, 3rd 40-74
ddrgreenthumbb: not to bad then
SPW26yankees: yea there's some quality players in the draft
ddrgreenthumbb: how long till u draft
SPW26yankees: you could probably do it this weekend if you wanted, we already have 1 of the teams filled, and the other is just a formality i think
ddrgreenthumbb: i would be down. anyway you can send me a db so i can see what is what
SPW26yankees: definitely
ddrgreenthumbb: sweet
ddrgreenthumbb: how often can a gm change his lineup in the ibc?
SPW26yankees: nightly
ddrgreenthumbb: sweet
SPW26yankees: transactions go in once a week though
SPW26yankees: same for injuries
ddrgreenthumbb: i love being able to set the lineup daily
SPW26yankees: what email you want it to?
ddrgreenthumbb: mezenman@yahoo.com
SPW26yankees: sent
ddrgreenthumbb: thanks
ddrgreenthumbb: what teams are in the draft?
SPW26yankees: pitt, cleveland, washington
ddrgreenthumbb: u still the dodgers
SPW26yankees: you know it
ddrgreenthumbb: do we keep the current record?
SPW26yankees: yea
ddrgreenthumbb: can we trade draft picks?
SPW26yankees: we just reinstated it (hasn't been announced to the league), from the end of the year to the start of the draft
ddrgreenthumbb: any other rules on trading?
SPW26yankees: um...they get approved by a 3 team Trade Review Committee
ddrgreenthumbb: i thought i heard something about no low a guys
SPW26yankees: prospects below AA get severely discounted
ddrgreenthumbb: ok
SPW26yankees: case by case though
SPW26yankees: but in most cases they count as almost nothing
ddrgreenthumbb: where would i find the nondatabase players from these teams
SPW26yankees: on the web site, i'll set you up when you're approved
ddrgreenthumbb: thats cool. i'm still making list of infielders
SPW26yankees: lol
ddrgreenthumbb: very thin
SPW26yankees: ah
ddrgreenthumbb: mccann mornau and hardy
SPW26yankees: you want the draft team non-sim? i can do that in a sec
ddrgreenthumbb: ya
ddrgreenthumbb: thanks
SPW26yankees: sent
SPW26yankees: i gotta run
ddrgreenthumbb: ok, thanks for the list
SPW26yankees: hey
ddrgreenthumbb: hey
SPW26yankees: not looking too good, bren is throwing up an absolute stink about you coming back, we're fighting like crazy, but i have a feeling somebody else is gonna flip to bren's side
ddrgreenthumbb: not a big deal. bren will be bren.
SPW26yankees: yea i'll keep you posted though
ddrgreenthumbb: cool
SPW26yankees: was going to see if you might want to rejoin ibc (we're under a new leadership method) if you had time
ddrgreenthumbb: i seen that. i think i might
SPW26yankees: no kidding? we're actually looking for a gm
ddrgreenthumbb: i seen you were
ddrgreenthumbb: i would do it
SPW26yankees: you going to have enough time?
ddrgreenthumbb: yup, with the baby i'm stuck upstairs all night
ddrgreenthumbb: is it one of the minidraft teams?
SPW26yankees: ok, i gotta run it by the exco
SPW26yankees: yea
ddrgreenthumbb: cool let me know
SPW26yankees: will do, you'll love the way we do shit
ddrgreenthumbb: i'll be back in a few
ddrgreenthumbb: i'm stuck micromanaging the real tampa team in a league. i need a team
SPW26yankees: your ibc division is going to be pretty solid though
ddrgreenthumbb: what team, who is in the division?
SPW26yankees: you'd get pittsburgh, nate aaron jp
ddrgreenthumbb: i was pit when i got booted right
SPW26yankees: honestly i don't remember
ddrgreenthumbb: i think so
ddrgreenthumbb: almost 100
SPW26yankees: ?
ddrgreenthumbb: %
SPW26yankees: ah
ddrgreenthumbb: how many teams minidrafting?
SPW26yankees: 3
SPW26yankees: one is 57-59, other 56-57, 3rd 40-74
ddrgreenthumbb: not to bad then
SPW26yankees: yea there's some quality players in the draft
ddrgreenthumbb: how long till u draft
SPW26yankees: you could probably do it this weekend if you wanted, we already have 1 of the teams filled, and the other is just a formality i think
ddrgreenthumbb: i would be down. anyway you can send me a db so i can see what is what
SPW26yankees: definitely
ddrgreenthumbb: sweet
ddrgreenthumbb: how often can a gm change his lineup in the ibc?
SPW26yankees: nightly
ddrgreenthumbb: sweet
SPW26yankees: transactions go in once a week though
SPW26yankees: same for injuries
ddrgreenthumbb: i love being able to set the lineup daily
SPW26yankees: what email you want it to?
ddrgreenthumbb: mezenman@yahoo.com
SPW26yankees: sent
ddrgreenthumbb: thanks
ddrgreenthumbb: what teams are in the draft?
SPW26yankees: pitt, cleveland, washington
ddrgreenthumbb: u still the dodgers
SPW26yankees: you know it
ddrgreenthumbb: do we keep the current record?
SPW26yankees: yea
ddrgreenthumbb: can we trade draft picks?
SPW26yankees: we just reinstated it (hasn't been announced to the league), from the end of the year to the start of the draft
ddrgreenthumbb: any other rules on trading?
SPW26yankees: um...they get approved by a 3 team Trade Review Committee
ddrgreenthumbb: i thought i heard something about no low a guys
SPW26yankees: prospects below AA get severely discounted
ddrgreenthumbb: ok
SPW26yankees: case by case though
SPW26yankees: but in most cases they count as almost nothing
ddrgreenthumbb: where would i find the nondatabase players from these teams
SPW26yankees: on the web site, i'll set you up when you're approved
ddrgreenthumbb: thats cool. i'm still making list of infielders
SPW26yankees: lol
ddrgreenthumbb: very thin
SPW26yankees: ah
ddrgreenthumbb: mccann mornau and hardy
SPW26yankees: you want the draft team non-sim? i can do that in a sec
ddrgreenthumbb: ya
ddrgreenthumbb: thanks
SPW26yankees: sent
SPW26yankees: i gotta run
ddrgreenthumbb: ok, thanks for the list
SPW26yankees: hey
ddrgreenthumbb: hey
SPW26yankees: not looking too good, bren is throwing up an absolute stink about you coming back, we're fighting like crazy, but i have a feeling somebody else is gonna flip to bren's side
ddrgreenthumbb: not a big deal. bren will be bren.
SPW26yankees: yea i'll keep you posted though
ddrgreenthumbb: cool
Agree that we should all know everyone who is a potential GM candidate. I think 3 years or whatever it was is a pretty good length for an indefinite suspension. We can make sure he understands that he's on a short leash for rule violations and that if he fucks something up he's gone (I'd support putting him on probation like that for the first season if that makes everyone more comfortable), but I have two things to say on the subject. One, people mature and it sounds like Josh has done that, and two, come on its sim league baseball, nothing worth getting into a lifelong feud over.
I see, so "Never" should at some point become "Eventually"? No dice. When you screw around with punishments after the fact, they become completely meaningless when applying them in the future. Josh could show up on my doorstep tomorrow with flowers, candy, admit what he did was wrong (something he has never done because Josh is never wrong) and genuinely convince me that he is sorry for what he did and I would still say No. A lifetime ban doesn't mean "Until we need you". It means lifetime.
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Bren, the closest thing I can find to a "lifetime ban" or "never coming back" rule would be this, where you clearly didn't shut the door (3/30/05):
I can't put a gag in Josh's mouth. Josh isn't coming back and he
isn't going to stop acting like this either. He's bitter, resentful
and throwing a tantrum. You can listen to him or you can ignore him.
Personally, I'll be doing the latter. He's a 30-something fully grown
adult with a fully developed personality that won't change. The more
he continues like this, the more firmly I know that I made the right
decision and the less likely I am going to be to change my mind at any
point in the future.
I found one more email thread from him after this, which I'm pretty sure I remember you pretty much instigated by bitching on the board and then deleting some posts.
I did find it interesting reading back through these emails, basically the sole reason he left was the Pavano trade, which was made with Brett, who was new then but clearly a bigger deal was made about that trade than should have been. Basically most of the experienced GMs...JB, Nate, etc. were all in Josh's corner and you had Rich on your side, who clearly seemed to egg you on.
I can't put a gag in Josh's mouth. Josh isn't coming back and he
isn't going to stop acting like this either. He's bitter, resentful
and throwing a tantrum. You can listen to him or you can ignore him.
Personally, I'll be doing the latter. He's a 30-something fully grown
adult with a fully developed personality that won't change. The more
he continues like this, the more firmly I know that I made the right
decision and the less likely I am going to be to change my mind at any
point in the future.
I found one more email thread from him after this, which I'm pretty sure I remember you pretty much instigated by bitching on the board and then deleting some posts.
I did find it interesting reading back through these emails, basically the sole reason he left was the Pavano trade, which was made with Brett, who was new then but clearly a bigger deal was made about that trade than should have been. Basically most of the experienced GMs...JB, Nate, etc. were all in Josh's corner and you had Rich on your side, who clearly seemed to egg you on.
We all miss Rich.
Josh is the type of guy who got in an argument with a teenager (JP) about a Madden game and has had him blocked on AIM ever since (2-3 years ago). Believe me, there were times when I wondered if it was just me (I know it was partly me, it takes two to fight), but I've had enough evidence since then that I can say with no doubt in my mind, that Josh is a prick and he's far more trouble than he'll ever be worth.
Josh was banned for life, period. Didn't matter if it was written down for all the league to see, I told him he was never welcome back and as Commish, that was all that mattered and is all that should have mattered. I would never suggest bringing in a member who personally attacked any other member of the ExCo, much less threatened to tear your league apart. This isn't about Josh getting a second chance or not (It would be well beyond his second). I have no problem giving guys second chances. I emailed Paul about coming back. I had no problem bringing Dave Taylor back. JP quit or was booted who knows how many times. I have no problem giving second chances because I know I end up needing them often enough.
I forget where I was going with this, but the points are all there I think.
Josh is the type of guy who got in an argument with a teenager (JP) about a Madden game and has had him blocked on AIM ever since (2-3 years ago). Believe me, there were times when I wondered if it was just me (I know it was partly me, it takes two to fight), but I've had enough evidence since then that I can say with no doubt in my mind, that Josh is a prick and he's far more trouble than he'll ever be worth.
Josh was banned for life, period. Didn't matter if it was written down for all the league to see, I told him he was never welcome back and as Commish, that was all that mattered and is all that should have mattered. I would never suggest bringing in a member who personally attacked any other member of the ExCo, much less threatened to tear your league apart. This isn't about Josh getting a second chance or not (It would be well beyond his second). I have no problem giving guys second chances. I emailed Paul about coming back. I had no problem bringing Dave Taylor back. JP quit or was booted who knows how many times. I have no problem giving second chances because I know I end up needing them often enough.
I forget where I was going with this, but the points are all there I think.
