I dislike bringing this up

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:31 pm

But it has to be brought up.

Nate's activity level has dropped dramatically the past few years and it's to the point now where we've booted people for far less than what he's been putting forth this year. He's only been officially hit with two violations, but I've cut him slack on Ichiro and Posada. With Ichiro, he sent an MP (shocking he even did that) opening night with Ichiro playing, I had to kindly let him know that Ichiro was on the DL and he should probably bench him. Then Posada, I've already explained what happened, he sends me an offline chat that I would have to really dig to see rather than e-mailing me, and I let it slide for the effort of it, but to be honest, if I were in another division I probably would have given him a penalty for that but I really don't want it to look bad in any way possible with me competing with him neck and neck right now. That could very well be four- and plus Linden from tonight who Jim posted was shipped off to Japan over a week ago. That's five times he's had his thumb up his ass, four with major players and once with something that was posted on our boards and it's not even July.

I'm not saying we should go ahead and boot him right this instant or anything, I'm just bringing this up for discussion since I don't know what to do. He really needs to get his shit together so we can end any possible future discussion of removing him from the league, but what's been the difference between Degan and Nate? The only difference has been Nate has a stacked roster, which became stacked when he feasted on our weaker GM's of the past. We probably need to send him an ultimatum or something outlining our concerns and telling him to ship the fuck up, but I don't even know if he would see it or reply to it. He doesn't reply to any PMs and only stays on chat long enough to tell me what (if any) roster moves to make for him.

But either way, this is becoming a problem

Dodgers · Post by **Dodgers** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:57 pm

Totally agree...we've booted many GMs for far less. At some point, the fact that he's a competitor is just not enough to keep him in the league. I think an ultimatum is in order.

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:09 pm

If Nate's team sucked, we'd have already booted him by now. That's 5 violations on the year. And as JP has said, he's not that great of an evaluator of talent, he just built up his team when he'd be the first one to get to our newbies. Send him an ultimatum, if we haven't heard from him, then get rid of him. I don't think there's any other choice at this point

Padres · Post by **Padres** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:36 pm

I agree ... I also noticed he is still playing Linden who signed with a Japanese team.

Nationals · Post by **Nationals** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:40 pm

I'm just catching up after a long weekend, but hmm, yeah, there's definitely an issue here. Have we formally told him anything yet or should we take the repeated reminders about DL violations to be sufficiant warning to issue a "shape up or ship out"-type ultimatum?

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:38 pm

I would think that he'd have gotten the message that he needs to pay attention after multiple violations but apparently not. Someone needs to send an ultimatum, but I think if it comes from me or JP, he would take it the wrong way and think we're just trying to get him out of the way or something, which is far from the truth. I think the ultimatum needs to be sent and if there's no response, which, let's face it, he's yet to comment on any of his new violations and its been ages since there was an MP sent, then we remove him and figure out what we're going to do from there

Nationals · Post by **Nationals** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:51 pm

I can be the bearer of grim tidings. What format has he been most responsive--the IBC gmail or the PM system?

Padres · Post by **Padres** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:11 pm

Twins wrote:I can be the bearer of grim tidings. What format has he been most responsive--the IBC gmail or the PM system?

If you like you can cc me on a gmail to Nate and I will follow up if he doesn't respond. We are not close but I did do some phone stuff for him, re: a couple of drafts, when he was unable to access his pc ...

Nationals · Post by **Nationals** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:57 pm

I've emailed Nate (with Jim CC'd). I'll share his response when (if?) it comes

Rangers · Post by **Rangers** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:29 pm

I know I haven't commented on it yet, and I don't disagree with the conclusion. I just hope that we can be respectful as we go through the process with him. It's human nature to treat someone lousy once you start to feel like you've had it with them. Aaron's right that he basically built his team on the weaklings of the early league, but so did Bren and JB and most of the teams that have been good for several years. He's a shell of what he was participation-wise, but he was a big part of the league for a long time.

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:05 pm

He sent an MP on Tuesday. With Gronkiewicz activated, after I had posted that he hasn't pitched in well over a year, had TJ and his a free agent. I replied saying basically, wtf? Gronkie is a free agent, had TJ and hasn't pitched in over a year. His reply was...

I had no idea, I had checked rotoworld for injuries and he was not
listed and I have never read of him having Tommy John surgery, and I'm
almost positive I had viewed stats from him for this year, earlier in
the season.. Although I could be mistaken...

My apologies.. My time and efforts, are, obviously limited these
days.. If my team wasn't where it is, I'd probably hand over the team
to someone else at this point, to be honest.. but I'd like to try to
win one.

Do what you have to do, no hurt feelings on this end, I will try to be
more vigilant in checking things, but if its any consolation, I only
activated vlad now, after he was activated in late may..

So the consolation to him being inactive is...him being inactive.

Also, as Ropers said, Linden had pinch hit so he had Gronkie AND Linden active again after it was clear that Gronkie was out, and Linden had been posted not only by Jim and me. I've lost count of the violations.

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:39 pm

I believe we're at 7 now

Nationals · Post by **Nationals** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:12 pm

I suppose that counts as a response...I heard nothing on the email that I sent

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:59 pm

The problem I have isn't the fact that he's been strapped for time or whatever and the injury things are a bit ridiculous, but in a selfish way, it helps me. No Halladay for a month? Cool with me. The thing that I think sucks out of that reply, and is the big red flag to me, is that he's only here because he has a winning record and is tied for first and up on the WC by 5 games by doing below what we typically have deemed acceptable. So he's going to ride it out, punishments and all, until he either wins a WS or his team falls apart. That's the the thing that kind of bugs me a bit.

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 4:23 pm

JP shared Nate's response with me when he got the email and I have to echo his sentiments. It doesn't seem like Nate really cares that he's inactive, not doing anything with his team, ect. because he's still winning. Ask yourself, if Nate had a team that was at the bottom of the division instead of the top, would we even be having this discussion right now, or would he already have been shown the door?

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:55 pm

Alright guys, this is actual violation #5 for Nate, not counting the Ichiro and Posada violations that JP let slide. The ultimatum obviously did nothing. I think it's time to take action or we're gonna be like the boy who cried wolf, telling him if he does it again he'll be in big trouble

Nationals · Post by **Nationals** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:41 am

Yeah, this is pretty much the end for Nate in my opinion...also...JP, I'm willing to bet that he hasn't sent Randy Johnson down either.

Padres · Post by **Padres** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:30 am

Cardinals wrote:... The ultimatum obviously did nothing. I think it's time to take action or we're gonna be like the boy who cried wolf, telling him if he does it again he'll be in big trouble

I agree on both counts ...

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:08 am

Twins wrote:Yeah, this is pretty much the end for Nate in my opinion...also...JP, I'm willing to bet that he hasn't sent Randy Johnson down either.

He kind of did actually. And by kind of, he told me last week to bring up Halladay and send down RJ 9 days ago. He said:

Sorry for the confusion.. Can you do me a favor and activate halladay
for me after Randy Johnson's next start? Just disable Johnson after
his latest start in the week this week because he hits the DL next
week anyway.

My reply was:

Halladay had pitched for you while he was on the DL back on June 24 or 25. He's out for the month of July for you (4 extra weeks) given that you're well into multiple DL penalties and really could have more than you have right now too. This was post-Shields and Posada (who wasn't penalized, but if I were a jerk and all I cared about were penalizing you I'd have given you one for that) but before Gronkiewicz and Linden. Can you not access the IBC Website? This was posted a few weeks ago that he was out an additional four weeks. I'm not trying to "stick it to you" or whatever because we are battling it out for first, the penalty was a decision come down by the entire ExCo and not just me. Johnson can pitch for the remainder of this week since he wasn't placed on the disabled list Monday, but next week he has to be DL'ed.

I haven't received a reply since.

So given that he requested last week for Halladay to come up and RJ to go down, I did send RJ down. Still, a reply to that would have been nice, as would an MP, a post, anything besides an admission that if he weren't in first he wouldn't be in the league. At this point, I don't disagree with Aaron, Jim and Andrew.

Dodgers · Post by **Dodgers** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:55 am

Especially with the beginnings of a league backlash, I think it may be time to take action. The question is what to do with the team.

Nationals · Post by **Nationals** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:18 am

If we are to kick Nate for his frequent and flagrant flauntings of the DL rules (an action I endorse), we probably should keep his team intact and "ghost-managed" to the extent that we as an Executive Council DL/activate players as necessary and no more. Yes, this ghost team could make the playoffs, but considering the star power that will not be playing, I find the odds of this happening to be low. As for going forward, we should act to get a GM in place within a month or so of the season's end and then minidraft between Milwaukee and Cincinnati, giving everyone a fresh start.

Padres · Post by **Padres** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:25 pm

Twins wrote:If we are to kick Nate for his frequent and flagrant flauntings of the DL rules (an action I endorse), we probably should keep his team intact and "ghost-managed" to the extent that we as an Executive Council DL/activate players as necessary and no more. Yes, this ghost team could make the playoffs, but considering the star power that will not be playing, I find the odds of this happening to be low. As for going forward, we should act to get a GM in place within a month or so of the season's end and then minidraft between Milwaukee and Cincinnati, giving everyone a fresh start.

I agree with this. AL members of the Exec can manage the MPs ...

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:00 pm

Before we make any decision regarding Nate's fate, we need to be 100% sure of our post- Nate plan. I'm obviously on board with removing him given that I'm the one who brought this whole thing up a month ago, but we have to be absolutely sure of our plan as we move forward.

A couple of quick thoughts. According to the rules, vacant teams aren't eligible for the playoffs. That would be a sticky situation if he won the NLC or WC and then somehow went on to win the World Series...with no GM. However, given his injury situation and penalties- and the fact that there won't be any moves to make with no GM in place- I doubt the Reds would win the division and honestly, I do bet the Wild Card comes from the NL East given the strength of schedules.

If we are to go this route and take him out, we also wouldn't have to rush ourselves into finding a replacement GM- especially if there's a minidraft between the Reds and Brewers. Would we allow anybody else to join the minidraft? I'd have to say no on the surface, just because teams like Cleveland, Houston and Baltimore (I believe that was our last wave of GMs) have been here for over a year each and there's no sense in allowing them to draft. They've had time to make their moves and they reap the field they sow.

If we do allow the team to make the playoffs and it does and somehow wins the IBC with no GM... then that kind of makes the entire year sort of a dud. Now of course, it's difficult for me to comment on that since we are neck and neck for a division race and I don't want to really look like a baby or whatever and trying to make my path easier, but we would have to change the rule (no big deal) if we allow the Reds to make the playoffs without a GM in place. I'm pretty against handing that roster over to a newbie as well, so it's kind of a tough situation that we're left in with this.

We'd also have probably a flurry of divisional moves too. I know Ken has expressed much interest in being the Reds in the past, trying to get Nate to switch, so we'd have to deal with some realignment at the end of the year, which I mean, we deal with every year so no big deal at all really.

And I agree with an AL ExCo member sumbitting the MP's. Not that I would try to sabotage the team or whatever, but I'd just rather not be in charge of something like that.

Lastly, this is something that in my opinion, we'd need all six ExCo's to be on board with before making a decision.

Dodgers · Post by **Dodgers** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 3:41 pm

The rule is in place for a reason, so the Reds can't make the playoffs if we boot Nate. Other than that, I agree with everything JP said I believe.

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:15 pm

My only concern with that was that I could potentially look fishy. But really, I think the chances are >50% that I win the division anyway. Of course, I'm in love with my team so whatever. Still, if this were me out to get Nate, I'd have brought it up long ago and I've been giving him as many chances as possible (Ichiro, Posada.) Bren asked me what was going on yesterday, so I told him what the situation was and he said it would not look shady whatsoever, despite Aaron and I being on ExCo, because at this point he's hurting the league. It would, from a different perspective, open up the NL to more competition and grant the WC spot to somebody who has been active and trying hard this year by removing Nate from the equation. Not that that's a "benefit" per se, but just something that goes with the territory. My only concern as I've illustrated plenty now would be taking Cinci out of the playoffs, but I honestly don't even think they make it with the way Nate has been managing his team. Too fucked in the ass with DL penalties and lack of doing...anything.. to benefit his team.

We've tried contacting Nate ad nausem, i don't think he even ever replied to Andrew's email (right?) and we have gone through more motions with him trying to keep him here than any other GM. I think the only thing left for us to do is come up with a definitive plan on how to handle his team in the offseason, but Jim, Andrew, Shawn and I seem to agree and I know Aaron does as well. So I guess this one goes onto Brett now.