NFL Draft Discussion

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:31 pm

I don't feel even a little bad that I'm inside watching the draft on such a beautiful day. Were I in the city and not visiting my folks in CT, I'd be at a bar, so at least I'm not half in the bag already. For Raider fans over the past 6 yrs, it's been our Super Bowl. One glorious day of optimism (or a half-day, if you really really wanted Larry Fitzgerald and not Robert Gallery, or Matt Leinart and not the completely useless Michael Huff). Unlike their last appearance in the real Super Bowl, we're not using the opposing coach's playbook against him. Al Davis doesn't do a thing by any playbook but his own, and he doesn't want anyone to forget that. Draft day has been the only day of 365 that puts a smile on Raider fans' scarred, painted, scowling faces - allowing most of them to forget for a moment the bars around them, or that shiv they just took in the gut, when they happily get "Russell #2" tattooed across their back.

I love and hate Al Davis.

I love him for being one of the most important and successful figures in NFL history, for being fiercely loyal to his players, for telling the media to screw off rather than change the way he runs his team to get more headlines. I love him for taking who he feels like taking in the draft no matter what Kiper, McShay or anyone else says. I love him for always wanting to win, and not sparing a dime to add players he thinks the team needs.

I hate Al Davis for almost all of the same reasons I love him. His loyalty to his players spawned the awful decision to give Art Shell a second chance about 10 yrs too late. Davis's spurning the media and tightly controlling any and all information about the organization (including minor transactions) gives fans less to read about, and causes the media to rely on misinformation and speculation to report on the Raiders. I hate him for crippling the team's ability to add key FA in the next couple seasons by overspending last season to add veteran parts to a young team not nearly ready to win.

If Crabtree (or Eugene Monroe) is available at 7, and he pulls the trigger, I'll love him again.

Most of the coverage leading up to the draft about who the Raiders will select has clearly been media people who have no contacts in Oakland to give them a hint. Instead of actually looking at the team, these "experts" just rely on the familiar, lazy refrain that "Al Davis loves speed" or "Al Davis is crazy so I'll make a crazy mock pick" (excepting Bill Williamson - ESPN's AFC West blogger, and a couple of the Raiders bloggers for the Oakland Trib, SF Chronicle and other area papers who do as much as they can w/ a tough org to report on).

McShay and Kiper are useless. Mock drafts all over have the Raiders taking Jeremy Maclin over Crabtree (even if available) b/c of his speed, and "Al loves speed." Did they even look at the roster, or read the numerous reports about how much Davis and the coaching staff love young long-range threats Chaz Schilens and Johnnie Lee Higgins? They need a reliable red zone/TD-maker for Russell to throw to, and Crabtree is the best one of those available.

Yes, Davis is unpredictable, but rather than throwing up hands and assuming an irrational decision based on no actual information (even if it might happen), these prognosticators should assume they will take the best player for their team.

Anyway, draft is rolling. Please God let Crabtree drop to #7.

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:34 pm

Chiefs pass on Curry to add Tyson Jackson to a line w/ last year's #5 pick, former teammate Glenn Dorsey. Really wanted Dorsey at #4 for the Raiders last year, but have changed my tune after seeing glimpses of a healthy McFadden, who's a next-level talent.

Seahawks take Curry.

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:40 pm

The Jackson pick really stirs things up. There are 3 of 4 guys who could be bookend OT's left on the board. If the Raiders can trade back a few spots and still get one of them plus add picks, they'd have to think hard about doing it even if it costs them Crabtree.

Rangers · Post by **Rangers** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:41 pm

Jets beat Washington to Sanchez, interesting.

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:47 pm

Tigers wrote:Jets beat Washington to Sanchez, interesting.

Missed if they said what they gave up. Maybe the Skins didn't want to deal w/ having to deal Campbell, or they're after Freeman.

Rangers · Post by **Rangers** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:48 pm

Marlins wrote:
Tigers wrote:Jets beat Washington to Sanchez, interesting.
Missed if they said what they gave up. Maybe the Skins didn't want to deal w/ having to deal Campbell, or they're after Freeman.

My guess is that they wanted Washington's 2010 first rounder as well, while Mangini likes his old players enough to take a #2.

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:50 pm

So far, dream scenario for Oakland. Looks like Bengals took Andre Smith because they liked his jugs. Crabtree or Monroe is a tough call.

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:56 pm

kill me

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:59 pm

unreal. absolute gift having both Crabtree and Monroe out there. totally deflating.

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:02 pm

Darius Heyward-Bey? Eff you Todd McShay for saying "this has bust written all over it." Eff you Al for playing right into the hands of all the haters, like McShay. Disaster. First passed on Fitzgerald, now Crabtree. I don't know if I can keep watching.

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:28 pm

49ers need to send a gift basket across the Bay to Al Davis for doing the nearly unthinkable and gifting them maybe the best player in the draft.

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:34 pm

A nice pick by the Skins on Orakpo, but as Michael Wilbon said a few wks ago on PTI, the Redskins are always "offseason champions," so we'll see.

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:26 pm

Great work by Mangina + Co. in Cleveland. Got a guy considered a sure-thing and the best C available and picked up valuable additional picks.

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:15 pm

My theory is that Al Davis believes it is still 1976 and he thinks Heyward-Bey will be the perfect target for Ken Stabler to throw to down field if Cliff Branch gets hurt.

I was really hoping Peria Jerry would fall to the Colts. Since Ed Johnson's a dumbass and Quinn Pitcock was a pussy and retired after a year, we really need a DT. But, the Colts also needed a RB to platoon with Addai. Need a WR and a MLB too. Never imagined Malualuga would be there. Didn't think Beanie Wells would be either. Colts took Donald Brown. I've never seen the guy play. I do know Beanie is very brittle and Addai gets banged up a lot. Wells didn't play in a system where he had to catch the ball. All the analysits I heard said they'd prefer Brown if they were Peyton, that he can block and catch as well as run. Hopefully he pans out. I did like that he was just watching the draft with his family, and not 800 people jammed into his house. I liked that it seemed like he just had a normal family, not some house filled with expensive stuff the family bought in the last month already spending bonus money. I also liked he wasn't pimping some crappy endorsement like Clay Matthews. I hope he works out

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:18 pm

I was really hoping the Colts would take Beanie. As much as the Ohio Staters I knew blustered about the guy, get them sober and they couldn't see how he'd survive in the NFL.

it was frustrating seeing BB spend most of the day trading down, but considering they got Butler at 41, who had been mentioned as a pick by the Pats at 23, it's hard to argue with BB.

Dan, I'd feel bad for you and the Raiders, I really would because you're a nice guy, it's just that... it's Al Davis and the Raiders. There doesn't seem to be a fan base anywhere in American sports that seems to revel in antagonizing and being hated by other fans more than the Raiders.

Yankees · Post by **Yankees** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:52 pm

Had to jump in here - sorry Dan...apparently the Raiders 2nd round pick was in the "undrafted free agent" category on most scouts lists...

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:31 pm

I am tired.

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:48 pm

Honestly, I'm numb. Even if there was no previous evidence of the onset of Al Davis's senile dementia, its definitely time to call in the white coats.

1. Darrius Heyward-Bey, WR

In the last few drafts the Raiders have added the consensus top player at QB, RB and TE (Russell, McFadden, Z. Miller). They had an opportunity to do the same at WR, or add a bookend LT. They have burners who can get down the field and need to develop like Schilens and Johnnie Lee Higgins. Crabtree would have given them the sure-handed TD threat they desperately needed. Instead, another stopwatch special. If they didn't like Crabtree's personality, or just liked DHB better, they should have taken Monroe or at least attempted to trade down into the teens and get the same guy. After picking DHB, Cable said they didn't even explore trading the pick b/c he was their guy, and even considered moving UP for him in case someone else was after him (is that a joke?).

You know what? Fine. At least he's a first round talent, even if they had the best possible scenario with multiple great options (Monroe, Oher, Crabtree, Raji all available and teams in need of a WR below them who might trade up) and managed to choose "none of the above."

2. Michael Mitchell, S

First off, ESPN needs to do their homework. I don't care if this is an obvious overdraft (which it is), but I read about this guy visiting Oakland and the coaches falling in love with him weeks ago. Given what I've heard about him, he was on some teams draft radar, even if as a late round pick. If Mel Kiper and Todd McShay are the "experts" I want to hear something useful about each and every player from them no matter how bad of a pick. That's their job. They prepare all year for one weekend, so if a player's on a team's radar, they need to look him up and be ready.

Second, this was an awful pick here. My only explanation (besides brain deterioration due to age) as to why they didn't wait at least ONE FRIGGIN ROUND on this guy is that a handful of guys at the top of their board got snapped up in the first 7 picks in Rd. 2 (safeties Delmas and Chung and OT Eban Britton), so they panicked, traded w/ the Pats, have a huge hole at safety, and pulled the crazy trigger. I was hoping at pick 40 they'd take OT William Beatty or DT Ron Brace (who the Pats took at that pick - reinforcing my belief that its better to just not trade w/ New England anymore - Moss was going to dog it in Oakland no matter what, so I don't even care about that, but Al should have accepted Doug Gabriel to NE for a 4th rounder a couple years ago as a small victory, then not spoken to the Pats again).

Adding a 4th and a 6th to move down 7 spots was actually a pretty good move if they took Beatty, Loadholt or Moore there, since they traded a 4th last year for *ahem* an unnamed ex-Falcons DB they cut 8 games later and a 6th this year for Samson Satele, the Miami center. Since Max Unger was available in rd. 2, I wish they hadn't dealt for Satele, but who knew. In any case, after adding a much-needed extra pick, instead of taking the best available guy along the offensive or defensive line, they go back to the well at the position they've had the least success drafting at over the last 5 yrs and take a safety they could have had probably with either of the two picks they just acquired.

Excruciating. The only day of the year I look forward to as an Oakland fan, and after our best offseason in a few years (adding depth and character guys at need positions) it's a huge letdown.

Dodgers · Post by **Dodgers** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:26 pm

Cardinals wrote:My theory is that Al Davis believes it is still 1976 and he thinks Heyward-Bey will be the perfect target for Ken Stabler to throw to down field if Cliff Branch gets hurt.

I was really hoping Peria Jerry would fall to the Colts. Since Ed Johnson's a dumbass and Quinn Pitcock was a pussy and retired after a year, we really need a DT. But, the Colts also needed a RB to platoon with Addai. Need a WR and a MLB too. Never imagined Malualuga would be there. Didn't think Beanie Wells would be either. Colts took Donald Brown. I've never seen the guy play. I do know Beanie is very brittle and Addai gets banged up a lot. Wells didn't play in a system where he had to catch the ball. All the analysits I heard said they'd prefer Brown if they were Peyton, that he can block and catch as well as run. Hopefully he pans out. I did like that he was just watching the draft with his family, and not 800 people jammed into his house. I liked that it seemed like he just had a normal family, not some house filled with expensive stuff the family bought in the last month already spending bonus money. I also liked he wasn't pimping some crappy endorsement like Clay Matthews. I hope he works out

Brown was pretty good for Uconn and the NFL.com profile of him seems pretty positive: http://www.nfl.com/draft/2009/profiles/ ... ft_Twitter

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:59 pm

Dodgers wrote:
Cardinals wrote:My theory is that Al Davis believes it is still 1976 and he thinks Heyward-Bey will be the perfect target for Ken Stabler to throw to down field if Cliff Branch gets hurt.

I was really hoping Peria Jerry would fall to the Colts. Since Ed Johnson's a dumbass and Quinn Pitcock was a pussy and retired after a year, we really need a DT. But, the Colts also needed a RB to platoon with Addai. Need a WR and a MLB too. Never imagined Malualuga would be there. Didn't think Beanie Wells would be either. Colts took Donald Brown. I've never seen the guy play. I do know Beanie is very brittle and Addai gets banged up a lot. Wells didn't play in a system where he had to catch the ball. All the analysits I heard said they'd prefer Brown if they were Peyton, that he can block and catch as well as run. Hopefully he pans out. I did like that he was just watching the draft with his family, and not 800 people jammed into his house. I liked that it seemed like he just had a normal family, not some house filled with expensive stuff the family bought in the last month already spending bonus money. I also liked he wasn't pimping some crappy endorsement like Clay Matthews. I hope he works out
Brown was pretty good for Uconn and the NFL.com profile of him seems pretty positive: http://www.nfl.com/draft/2009/profiles/ ... ft_Twitter

Brown should be a good pickup for your colts I think. Seems like he does everything well, though not exceptional in one particular facet, I'd say he's a pretty safe bet to be a productive and dependable NFL RB. Only watched him a few times, and his speed never blew me away, but the Colts don't really depend on having the "home run threat" type in their backfield since they're so dangerous through the air.

Giants · Post by **Giants** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:06 am

Marlins wrote:Great work by Mangina + Co. in Cleveland. Got a guy considered a sure-thing and the best C available and picked up valuable additional picks.

I thought I was the only one who called him Mangina, I've never seen it written anywhere before (not like I read that much New England press and no Patriots message boards but still). I didn't watch the draft, in part because I was asked to film a baseball game and in part because I couldn't bear to watch Davis pass on Crabtree. I'm not a Raiders fan, but I'd like them to be good because it makes life more interesting, and there was the perfect player right there. After the 49ers drafted Crabtree I was really hoping they'd take Pat White, but apparently they didn't (quote from McCloughan) "didn't have a player on their draft board who justified the salary that would be required for the 43rd overall pick." What does the 43rd overall pick make now? Last year's 43rd pick signed a 4 year deal for $3.775 million, that's really a major expenditure for a team paying 3.34 last year for Jonas Jennings to sit on the bench and 1.65 to 3rd down back Michael Robinson. On the other hand, I can't imagine Jimmy Raye designing an offense to take advantage of Pat White, so maybe it's for the best. The 49ers are the classic just when I thought I was out they pulled me back in, and then just when I thought I was in they pushed me back out team. First they get Singletary, which is good, then he moons the team and I start to wonder, then he goes to Shaun Hill and that's good, then he goes and gets Jimmy Raye to be offensive coordinator and that's bad, then he drafts Crabtree and that's good, then they cry poverty on the 43rd pick? Really?

Other than that the draft was as interesting a draft for a year filled with players who aren't that exciting as was possible. I can't imagine Stafford will justify that contract, and politically it's a terrible move in hard hit Detroit (did you guys see the don't draft Stafford clip from the Lions' uniform unveiling?). As for Mark Sanchez going to Jets, with all the emphasis supposedly placed on character in the new NFL how is no one talking about the fact that this guy was suspended in 2006 after being arrested for sexual assault? Isn't that a red flag? I really like Miami's draft, I think Pat White ends up being a better quarterback than Josh Freeman (and yes he'll play quarterback in Miami, his arm is stronger than Pennington's anyway though they'll get his feet wet in the wildcat), and I really think Vontae Davis is the most physically talented player in the draft. His attitude is usually a red flag, but for a cornerback that kind of cockiness can be a positive. Denver had a downright bizarre draft, I think Knoshown was an overdraft with so many good defensive players on the board, they must have really been sure that New Orleans was going to take him at 16. Last word, as much as I love Alex Mack (who I like to assume is Larisa Oleynik's old Nickelodeon character all grown up), I can't imagine him as a first round pick, and I was really surprised Oher fell that far.

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:00 am

I can't believe Al actually passed on Crabtree knowing he'd be right across the Bay. It's clear Al Davis doesn't give two shits what the media or the rest of the league thinks of him. That used to be an asset. Jon Gruden recently pointed out he always admired Davis's willingness to take risks others wouldn't without remorse. Indeed, that quality once allowed the Raiders to win big on players other teams didn't want for one reason or another. However, in today's NFL the salary cap prevents teams from amassing and keeping huge talent advantages over the competition. The difference in personnel from team-to-team is much smaller than in the past, so you have to draft for value. It's extremely important to be attuned to what the other teams are doing especially at draft time so you can extract as much value as possible from every pick.

As Aaron said, Davis must think it's 1976. Back then you could sneak small-school guys you "discovered" by other teams and live on your superior talent evaluation or scouting finds. Now there's tape and loads of analysis on everyone (except Michael Mitchell, apparently), so just about every viable candidate to be selected has been poked, prodded, interviewed and worked out by someone other than your team, no matter how small the school.

Anyway, pretty bad day 1 for the Raiders, but maybe not as bad as that useless goof Mel Kiper is making it seem. I just read a post-pick interview with Mitchell claiming the Bears were ready to take him at 49. I'm skeptical anyone else would have drafted him in round 2, but ok. HOFer Willie Brown loves Mitchell, so maybe he's the goods, but I doubt they needed to burn that high of a pick on the guy.

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:02 am

Athletics wrote:with all the emphasis supposedly placed on character in the new NFL how is no one talking about the fact that this guy was suspended in 2006 after being arrested for sexual assault?

They're too busy filming 30 minute long pieces about him wearing a mouthpiece the colors of the mexican flag. :{|

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:27 am

I think Mangina is just such an easy (and entertaining) leap from Mangini that everyone does it. I don't follow any Pats boards either and avoid any sports press aside from game analyses and I've also been calling him Mangina. it's like when A-rod got busted for steroids, the mental leap to A-roid is so easy, my roommate's cat could make it.

With Sanchez going to the Jets, you an bet Pats fans will ride him for the sexual assault charges.

Yankees · Post by **Yankees** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:53 am

I'm pumped with the Giants draft - Nicks was a pretty obvious pick - but getting Sintim and Beatty were two great pick-ups in the 2nd round. Every time I think the Giants should trade up, Reese or Accorsi sit and let everyone make mistakes around them. I've learned to trust them in the drafts...