ZiPS bidding cleanup

[Guardians]

If I recall, we had a few instances last year where there were conflicts about when ZiPS bidding would be in play vs free agency.

These are our rules: viewtopic.php?f=66&t=12860

So, we do all 30 teams and then we do one catch-all for guys who come out on a spreadsheet, but the last few years Dan hasn't done a spreadsheet, but just posted all of them to ZiPS.

What about guys who fall into that weird gap where bidding has ended, but guys are coming back from foreign leagues? We don't have a clean process for that. In the past, we've told people to post them and after 24 hours, they are free agents. But sometimes they never get posted and people sign them. Do we need to clarify rules at all?

Anything I'm missing that you guys recall were issues last year?

[Reds]

I'm not sure if posting them should be a requirement, though it is more a convenience for the league.

Since there are multiple sources for any of us to see signings then maybe we should just chose one that starts the clock, probably MLB because it is more official. Also, the clock should be 24 hours plus. For example if a player signing is posted anytime Monday the first day he could be signed would be Wednesday. We would have to provide an actual time of day other than 12:01am in that case, perhaps Noon eastern to accommodate all time zones.

This could be only for players we don't catch and post, or for all that come later than their ZiPS release.

[Guardians]

I'm not sure if posting them should be a requirement, though it is more a convenience for the league.

Since there are multiple sources for any of us to see signings then maybe we should just chose one that starts the clock, probably MLB because it is more official. Also, the clock should be 24 hours plus. For example if a player signing is posted anytime Monday the first day he could be signed would be Wednesday. We would have to provide an actual time of day other than 12:01am in that case, perhaps Noon eastern to accommodate all time zones.

This could be only for players we don't catch and post, or for all that come later than their ZiPS release.

Well, the idea behind posting is so that everyone has an opportunity to bid. If you see a report and don't post, you have the advantage to sign, which people obviously do. But the idea is to give everyone a chance. I just think we get into weird situations where there are gaps between time periods and then we sort of figure it out as we go.

I think either we make ZiPS last through the last ZiPS fangraphs posting or we extend that some period (2 weeks or all the way to opening day0 and then say anyone else who signs is a free agent. I think we just need a cleaner approach to avoid confusion.

[Reds]

I was more thinking about the ones we miss.

[Marlins]

Why don't we just make the last round of bidding be the 24 hrs after the season disk is released? That way by then we are certain it includes everyone who has a projection, it'll probably be May so doubtful any more guys come back from Japan.

[Guardians]

I actually like that idea a lot.

Anyone who was posted with a team goes through the normal posting or 24 hour process and becomes a free agent.

Anyone who is caught between signing with a team and that team's zips release must be posted.

Anyone who comes back to mlb from a foreign league must be posted.

Once the disc comes out, anyone can be posted for bidding. And after 24 hours from the JP posting the disc is out, anyone not posted is a free agent and zips is done for the year.

[Reds]

Why don't we just make the last round of bidding be the 24 hrs after the season disk is released? That way by then we are certain it includes everyone who has a projection, it'll probably be May so doubtful any more guys come back from Japan.

Nice idea, but way too simple to work .. let’s go with that.

[Cardinals]

Works for me.

[Rangers]

Did we ever announce this?

[Guardians]

We posted the updated zips bidding rules at the beginning of zips bidding. I think we're covered.

[Marlins]

I thought it was in place already but I was mistaken. I think we should also include in zips bidding when FG releases the full zips projections to the site.

[Marlins]

Here is my suggestion to revise the Zips Bidding section of the IBC rules. Thoughts?


VII. Zips Waivers

1. Zips waivers is a process that allows equal footing among IBC GMs on players’ projections for each upcoming season. This includes players currently on rosters and players returning to the US from playing overseas. This process is not used for players already on IBC teams’ rosters. Zips waivers will run from the end of the World Series until August 30 each season.
2. During the offseason when Zips projections are released team by team at www.fangraphs.com, the league uses a waiver system to acquire players. Note, this waiver system is completely separate from the normal waiver system used by OOPSS. At the start of Zips season (generally a week after the World Series), a Zips Waivers forum will be added to the site and will list all teams in a Zips waiver order. This order will be determined by end of season records. In case of ties, the tiebreaker will be the previous season’s record. This waiver order will be continuously updated as players are claimed within Zips Waivers and will be completely unaffected by normal OOPSS waivers.
3. As soon as the team graphic for upcoming Zips projections release is available anywhere (i.e. X, Bluesky, Facebook, FG site, etc), any player who’s name is listed anywhere on the graphic is considered on signing freeze. As soon as the full projection for the team is released, all players listed with projections are considered on signing freeze. At that point, a forum will be created with the link to the projections. Teams who are interested in claiming a player from that team must reply in the forum with their claim. Teams are allowed to put in claims for more than one player per team, the order of waiver priority must be noted in the post. The waiver period will last exactly 24 hours from the initial post of the team projections to the forum. At that point, all players without a waiver claim become free agents again. Players who do get waiver claims will be awarded by Admin from the site based upon the Zips Waiver order. Any successful waiver claims will push the claiming team to the bottom of the waiver order. If multiple players are claimed by one team, their current waiver position will be used for the first player listed. If they are awarded that player, then their waiver position for the second player listed will be their new position at the bottom of the list. Any waiver claim, even if only one team puts in a claim, will result in the claiming team to be moved to the bottom of the Zips Waiver order.
4. Zips Waivers will also include players with experience with a major league team (in majors OR minor leagues) who played outside the US (not affiliated with an MLB franchise) and are returning. If such a player signs with a team before it’s Zips projections have been released, then such a player will go through the normal Zips Waiver process per above in item 3. If such a player is signed after the team’s Zips projections have been released, then as soon as any part of the player’s new Zips Projection is released, that player is put on waivers in a separate thread within the Zips Waivers forum specifically for players returning to the US. Note, this waiver period is not said to begin until such time as the player/projection is posted to this forum. Granting of these players will be the same is in item 3. If a player returns to the US from playing outside the US in season prior to September 1 AND that player has a Zips projection, that player will be eligible for the Zips Waivers.
5. Due to the release schedule of Zips projections through the offseason, players who sign with a new team after that team’s projections have been released will be treated similarly to the players returning to the US as in item 4 above. As soon as any part of the Zips projection is released, the player will be eligible to be claimed in Zips Waivers in the team’s thread. This waiver period is not said to begin until such time at the player/projection is posted in this forum.
6. Upon release on FanGraphs of all Zips projections for the upcoming season in their “Projections” stat section, all players who for any reason were not initially listed with their team projections will be considered frozen for signings and eligible for Zips Waivers. Note, this will most likely be overlap with item 5 above.
7. Upon release of the Zips projections spreadsheet including defensive ratings for DMB OR upon release of the projection disk for DMB (whichever comes first), ALL players with a projection are eligible for Zips Waivers. All teams will have 24 hours from posting of this bidding section in the Zips Bidding forum to put in waiver claims on players. Any players without Zips Waiver claims become free agents after 24 hours. Players are rewarded to teams as per item 3 above.

[Reds]

Interesting and well thought out ideas. I need to read through it a few times before I comment. Thanks for the time and effort it took to put it together.

[Guardians]

Thanks Nils. A few suggested tweaks:

1. ZiPS waivers is a process that allows equal footing among IBC GMs on players’ projections for each upcoming season. This includes players currently on rosters and players returning to the US from playing overseas. This process is not used for players already on IBC teams’ rosters. Zips waivers will run from the end of the World Series until August 30 each season.
2. During the offseason when ZiPS projections are released team by team at www.fangraphs.com, the league uses a waiver system to acquire players. Note, this waiver system is completely separate from the normal waiver system used by OOPSS. At the start of ZiPS season (generally a week after the World Series), a ZiPS Waivers forum will be added to the site and will list all teams in a ZiPS waiver order. This order will be determined by end of season records. In case of ties, the tiebreaker will be the previous season’s record and then run differential. This waiver order will be continuously updated as players are claimed within Zips Waivers and will be completely unaffected by normal OOPSS waivers.
3. As soon as the team graphic for upcoming ZiPS projections release is available anywhere (i.e. X, Bluesky, Facebook, FG site, etc), any player whose name is listed anywhere on the graphic is considered on signing freeze. As soon as the full projection for the team is released, all players listed with projections are considered on signing freeze. At that point, a forum will be created with the link to the projections. Teams who are interested in claiming a player from that team must reply in the forum with their claim. Teams are allowed to put in claims for more than one player per team, the order of player preference must be noted in the post. The waiver period will last exactly 24 hours from the initial post of the team projections to the forum. At that point, all players without a waiver claim become free agents again. Players who do get waiver claims will be awarded by Admin from the site based upon the Zips Waiver order. Any successful waiver claims will push the claiming team to the bottom of the ZiPS waiver order. If multiple players are claimed by one team, their current waiver position will be used for the first player listed. If they are awarded that player, then their waiver position for the second player listed will be their new position at the bottom of the list. Any waiver claim, even if only one team puts in a claim, will result in the claiming team to be moved to the bottom of the ZiPS Waiver order.
4. ZiPS Waivers will also include players with a prior affiliation with a major league team (in majors OR minor leagues) who played outside the US (not affiliated with an MLB franchise) and are returning. If such a player signs with a team before its ZiPS projections have been released, then such a player will go through the normal ZiPS Waiver process per above in item 3. If such a player is signed after the team’s ZiPS projections have been released, then as soon as any part of the player’s new ZiPS Projection is released, that player is put on waivers in a separate thread within the ZiPS Waivers forum specifically for players returning to the US. Note, this waiver period is not to begin until such time as the player/projection is posted to this forum. Granting of these players will be the same is in item 3. If a player returns to the US from playing outside the US in season prior to September 1 AND that player has a ZiPS projection, that player will be eligible for the ZiPS Waivers.
5. Due to the release schedule of ZiPS projections through the offseason, players who sign with a new team after that team’s projections have been released will be treated similarly to the players returning to the US as in item 4 above. As soon as any part of the ZiPS projection is released, the player will be eligible to be claimed in ZiPS Waivers in the team’s thread. This waiver period is not to begin until such time at the player/projection is posted in this forum. These players are not eligible to be signed as free agents and must be posted through ZiPS Waivers.
6. Upon release on FanGraphs of all ZiPS projections for the upcoming season in their “Projections” stat section, all players who for any reason were not initially listed with their team projections will be considered frozen for signings and eligible for ZiPS Waivers. Note, this may overlap with item 5 above.
7. Upon release of the ZiPS projections spreadsheet including defensive ratings for DMB OR upon release of the projection disk for DMB (whichever comes first), ALL players with a projection are eligible for ZiPS Waivers. All teams will have 24 hours from posting of this bidding section in the ZiPS Bidding forum to put in waiver claims on players. Any players without ZiPS Waiver claims become free agents after 24 hours. Players are rewarded to teams as per item 3 above.


I like most of it and thanks Nils for taking a deep dive. I think No. 7 is redundant. I think after we get to this point in the offseason where we are today (full zips are on fg), we can probably end zips waivers and just let players be free agents. Once the disc comes out (May/June?), no one is going to want to claim guys. I think they should just be free agents at that point.

[Marlins]

I agree item 7 is redundant and that is a part id ask for help on. My point is we don't really have anything which states what happens when a player returns to the US from overseas mid-season (very rare yes, but just trying to cover every possibility). A player could come back AND have a projection.

Maybe it's as simple as once the disk is out, then Zips Waivers is over and in the off chance a player returns mid-season then they go into the following Zips Waivers?

[Reds]

Maybe it's as simple as once the disk is out, then Zips Waivers is over and in the off chance a player returns mid-season then they go into the following Zips Waivers?

Simplicity is good. I'd agree to that.