College Rivals

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:28 pm

Go Mountaineers!

Padres · Post by **Padres** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:39 am

How many times this season has the college football world simply thrown up its collective arms and said, "Now what?" Top-ranked LSU's triple-overtime loss to Arkansas Friday added "the latest left turn in this topsy-turvy season," writes SN's Tom Dienhart.

And not only does the upset knock LSU out of the national title picture, it makes tonight's Big 12 duel in Kansas City (8 p.m. ET, ABC) a battle for, dare we say it, No. 1. ... "So who had Mizzou and Kansas playing for the #1 ranking in late November? Anyone? Bueller?"

Other Saturday matchups hold significance, too, most notably Connecticut's visit to West Virginia (3:30 p.m. ET, ABC), where the Mountaineers hope to keep their BCS hopes alive. Elsewhere, Tennessee can clinch a spot in the SEC title game with a win at Kentucky (1:30 p.m. ET, CBS). And we wouldn't dare leave out rivalry games like Alabama-Auburn (8 p.m. ET, ESPN), Virginia Tech-Virginia (Noon ET, ESPN2) and Florida-Florida State (5 p.m. ET, CBS).

(Sporting News)

I'll be pulling for Mizzou, WVU, Tenn, 'bama (in what could be Saban's last game there), VTech and the Seminoles. Also I expect Maine's own Matt Ryan, in his last home game for BC, to unload some huge numbers on the Hurricanes (Noon, ESPN). Finally a win by Bren's UC over the Orangemen will likely cost coach Greg Robinson his job at Syracuse as they will end up 2-10 while the Bearcats go to 9-3 and a nice bowl bid follows. Oh yeah - the Sooners need to beat the Cowboys today also ...

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:06 am

I'm kicking myself right now, after the Vols were blown out by Florida, having already been smoking by Cal I decided to not try and get tickets to the Vols game today in Lexington, figuring there was now way the SEC East would be on the line. Now I'm stuck watching it at home instead of drinking in the parking lot with SEC hotties right now

Padres · Post by **Padres** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:27 pm

The Volunteers ALMOST go down in multi-OTs NEARLY snapping a 22 year winning streak against Kentucky ... (geez)

Norte Dame beats Stanford and goes 2-1 against the PAC 10 in a 3-9 season ...

Tebow ( 6'3", 235 lbs) likely wraps up the Heisman as a Sophomore now passing or running for 50 TDs this season ...

The game of the day is coming up ...

Pirates · Post by **Pirates** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:29 pm

all good except for the fact that Tenn. won

Padres · Post by **Padres** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:31 pm

Brewers wrote:all good except for the fact that Tenn. won

You're correct ... football overload - sorry! And I watched that escape ... geez!

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:12 pm

There were so many times I thought the game was wrapped up. The whole game swung on that bomb that Tamme took away from the corner when Woodson avoided the sack. If that was intercepted the Vols would've had a blowout. Crazy game, I'm exhausted still. I was planning on knocking out half of a paper tonight between the Vols and Mizzou games, but the length of the Vols game ended that hope

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:16 am

Go 'eers! This is playing out perfectly for WVU. If they beat Pitt, and Mizzou loses to OU, they get a beatable OSU team in a down year for the BigTen. Unlike Missouri (who might be a better team than OSU or WVU - but who cares b/c all 3 would lose to USC or LSU), THE Ohio State University has the "traditional power" rep that will legitimize a WVU national title. If Juice Williams tore up the OSU D at the Horseshoe, I like Pat White to do some damage on offense.

Giants · Post by **Giants** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:56 pm

I think WVU could have hung with LSU/USC in a National Championship game, and I think it would be the best possible outcome for the Big East if it's the Ohio State they get to play so that they can legitimize the conference.

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:17 pm

Hell Yeah!

Pirates · Post by **Pirates** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:49 am

Just because WVU is great doesnt mean the conference is good. If they win the whole thing it wont legitimize the conference at all. WVU is a flat out great team who ran the conference like they shouldve. A conference difficulty isnt determined by how good 1 team is, its the conference on the whole. Weather its the worst or 2nd worst of the major conferences will still remain the same.

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:10 am

Finally finished licking your wounds from the beating Brett administered?
What will undoubtedly remain the same is your inability to put together a cogent argument on the issue as you lack anything to back it up...

Pirates · Post by **Pirates** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:29 am

BCS RANKINGS-

BIG 12---Top ranking (1) Ranked Teams (4) Average Team Rank (8)
SEC------Top ranking (4) Ranked Teams (5) Average Team Rank (11)
Pac10----Top ranking (8) Ranked Teams (3) Average Team Rank (12)
ACC-----Top ranking (6) Ranked Teams (4) Average Team Rank (13)
Big 10---Top ranking (3) Ranked Teams (3) Average Team Rank (12)
Big East-Top ranking(2) Ranked Teams (3) Average Team Rank (15)

the big east has the lowest amount of ranked teams and the lowest average team ranking from the BCS rankings

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:49 am

Congratulations, you FINALLY made an argument!
Too bad that doesn't change the fact that the BCS rankings are seriously flawed as anyone with half a brain knows (I knew that before I gave half a shit about college football). I can boost WVU all I want but there's no way they're actually better than LSU. Nor is the Big 12 better than the SEC. Good effort though.

Pirates · Post by **Pirates** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:38 pm

since your a Cincinnati fan who is rooting for WVU does that mean michigan fans should root for ohio st to win the national championship? or yankee fans to root for the redsox or since my giants might not make the playoffs should i root for the cowboys to win it all?

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:57 pm

Brewers wrote:since your a Cincinnati fan who is rooting for WVU does that mean michigan fans should root for ohio st to win the national championship? or yankee fans to root for the redsox or since my giants might not make the playoffs should i root for the cowboys to win it all?

goodnight moonlight

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:10 pm

Horrible analogy for several reasons...
1. The Cowboys and Giants are rivals. Sox and Yankees are rivals. Michigan and Ohio State are rivals. Cincinnati and WVU aren't rivals. Miami, Louisville and maybe OSU are rivals for UC. Principally Miami as that rivalry dates back to 1888 and is one of the oldest in college football.
2. College football is a very different format from the professional sports, comparing the two is ridiculous. I can't imagine many Yankee fans rooting for the Sox in a WS, but I know a LOT of OSU fans out here (quite a few Michigan fans as well) and many of them have said that in ANY game that doesn't effect their team, they alway root for the other teams in their Conference because the better those teams do, the better the whole conference looks and that reflects on their team. That includes Michigan fans rooting for OSU in a Bowl game.
3. I will typically root for a team in the AFC to win the Superbowl and a team from the AL to win the World Series (unless I have a specific reason not to such as with a rival like the Colts or Yankees).

Pirates · Post by **Pirates** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:18 pm

the only thing that comes from WVU winning it all is the fact that you can say u lost to the national champion. Thats about it

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:31 pm

And that's exactly the kind of shallow analysis you've been bringing all along on this topic. Thanks Joe.

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:17 pm

In a sport where perception of strength can be more important that actual strength, winning a national title means everything for the Big East. OSU's ranking is based more on reputation than actual performance, as they haven't beaten anyone of note out of conference. For the Big East, WVU winning a national championship moves the league's rep closer to the other "power" conferences, where undefeated or one-loss seasons almost automatically put you in the national title discussion.

It's different than any pro sport, b/c there are no polls in pro sports. It doesn't matter one bit what the national perception of the AL East is in determining whether the Red Sox win championships. The opposite is true of college football, which has a stupid system that factors in the "reputation" of your team and league into determining who has a chance at a title.

I'm a Georgetown fan. I hate Syracuse basketball. However, once the tourney starts, I root for all of the Big East participants b/c even in college basketball (where the champion is determined on the court - by playing the games) league success helps my team in the future. The better Big East teams do, the greater the chances the Hoyas 1) make the tourney if they're "on the bubble," 2) get a #1 seed rather than a #2 seed if the committee has to make a close call (in any seeding scenario).

It makes perfect sense for Big East fans of any team to root for WVU.

As far as comparing the strength of the conferences, "average BCS rating" and really any analysis based solely on BCS ranking is totally meaningless when each conference only has 3-5 teams ranked in the BCS.

How about Jeff Sagarin's conference power rankings, based strictly on who beat who (no margin of victory, or conference "reputation" factored in)? As of this morning:

1. SEC
2. Pac-10
3. Big East
4. Big 12
5. ACC
6. Big Ten

How about quality victories against non-conference opponents?:

Big Ten: vs. Pitt, @ Washington, vs. Akron

ACC: @ South Carolina, @ Colorado, vs. Alabama, @ Rutgers, vs. Texas A&M, vs. UConn, vs. Pitt, @ Vanderbilt

Big 12: @ Illinois, @ Wake Forest

Big East: @ Auburn, vs. Oregon State, @ NC State, @ Maryland, vs. Mississippi State, vs. UNC

Pac-10: vs. Colorado, vs. Tennessee, @ Michigan, vs. BYU, @ Nebraska, vs. Boise State

SEC: vs. K-State, vs. FSU, vs. Oklahoma State, @ GT, vs. Louisville, vs. Va Tech, @ UNC

The Big 12 and Big Ten between them have ONE quality non-conference win (Missouri @ Illinois - who has no quality non-conf. wins themselves). The Big Ten's best non-conf. win might be MSU beating Pitt at home by 3 (not a great win). The ACC's best non-conference wins are @ a mediocre S. Car. team in a rivalry game (Clemson) and UVA at home by 1 over UConn (in a game where UConn fumbled a snap late near FG range). USF winning @ Auburn, UC crushing Oregon State 34-3, and WVU beating Miss. St. are all better non-conference wins than any single win by the Big 12 or Big Ten out-of-conference. I left out victories over Notre Dame, Duke or Syracuse, who are all too awful to count as quality non-conference victories for any league.

Throw in the fact that a Big East team will probably play for the national championship, and yeah, I'd say there's decent evidence that in this particular college football season, the Big East was at the very least a better overall conference than the ACC or Big Ten, and probably equal to or better than the Big 12. For this season, I'd rank them like this:

1. SEC (-)
2. Pac-10 (up)
3. Big 12 (-)
4. Big East (up)
5. Big 10 (down)
6. ACC (-)

Overall (past few seasons, and next few seasons), I put them like this in terms of overall conf. strength:

1. SEC
2. Big 12
3. Big Ten
4. Pac-10
5. Big East
6. ACC

Pirates · Post by **Pirates** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:28 pm

forget the fact that 10 of 11 big 10 teams are bowl eligable

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:48 pm

Brewers wrote:forget the fact that 10 of 11 big 10 teams are bowl eligable

Seriously? You do realize that all you need to do to become "bowl-eligible" is to win 6 games. Winning 6 games is especially not hard for a major conference having a down year and not playing very many tough non-conference opponents.

You know who else is "bowl-eligible?." How about these perennial powerhouses:

East Carolina (7-5), Houston (8-4), Memphis (7-5), Southern Miss (7-5), Tulsa (9-3), UCF (9-3), Ball State (7-5), Bowling Green (8-4), Central Michigan (7-5), Miami (Ohio) (6-6), Ohio (6-6), Air Force (9-3), New Mexico (8-4), TCU (7-5), Utah (8-4), Florida Atlantic (6-5), Louisiana-Monroe (6-6), Troy (8-3), Fresno State (7-4)

It means absolutely nothing that 10 of 11 Big Ten teams won 6 games. Northwestern and Iowa are bowl eligible. N'western's 6 wins: Northeastern, Nevada, Mich. St., Eastern Michigan, Minn., IU. They won six games, but LOST TO DUKE AT HOME. Iowa's 6 wins: Northern Illinois, Syracuse, Illinois, Mich. St., Northwestern, Minnesota. They LOST TO WESTERN MICHIGAN AT HOME. Quite the resume for those two "bowl eligible" monsters from the Big Ten.

If your best argument is this "10 of 11" bowl eligible garbage, you should quit now before you have you to resort to arguing how close the game was between Michigan and Appalachain State.

Pirates · Post by **Pirates** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:09 pm

you said ,"USF winning @ Auburn, UC crushing Oregon State 34-3, and WVU beating Miss. St. are all better non-conference wins than any single win by the Big 12 or Big Ten out-of-conference"

I forgot that Illinois was bad and is ranked higher then any of those teams.

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:14 pm

Brewers wrote:you said ,"USF winning @ Auburn, UC crushing Oregon State 34-3, and WVU beating Miss. St. are all better non-conference wins than any single win by the Big 12 or Big Ten out-of-conference"

I forgot that Illinois was bad and is ranked higher then any of those teams.

Ok, so the Big 12 had one non-conference win (against the Big Ten) as good or better than the Big East non-conference wins (against the SEC and Pac-10). That's all you've got? The Big East is not as good as the Big 12 this year b/c Mizzou beat Illinois @ Illinois? Fine. Even if that were true, why is the ACC or Big Ten better than the Big East this year?

Pirates · Post by **Pirates** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:24 pm

i never said thats the reason, the big 12 is much better then the big east. They have the number 1 ranked team and 3 teams ranked inside the top 10.

The ACC went 3-2 against the Big East this year.

IBC

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