IBC

Marlins wrote:Geovany Soto will continue the offensive rampage he started in AAA last year and vault up the catcher rankings.

He led the PCL in OPS last year (385 AB, 26 HR, 109 RBI, .353/.424/.652, 1.076 OPS), and didn't slow down when he got to the bigs (54 AB, .389/.433/.662). Stick that in your McCann.

Says the one that offered him up for McCann within 10 minutes of me getting him.


Background: Despite playing at pitcher-friendly high Class A Myrtle Beach, McCann put together one of the best all-around seasons of any catcher in the minors. A Carolina League all-star, he tied for the organization lead in doubles and set a career high for homers. His older brother Brad, a third baseman, signed with the Marlins as a 2004 sixth-round pick, while his father Howard is the former head coach at Marshall.

Strengths: McCann has a sweet lefthanded swing and as much raw power as anyone in the organization. He employs a disciplined approach at the plate and makes solid contact. Drafted primarily for his bat, he has dedicated himself to improving behind the plate and was named the CL's best defensive catcher. He threw out 30 percent of basestealers with his strong, accurate arm and quick release.

Weaknesses: While pitchers like throwing to McCann, he still needs to hone his skills behind the plate, particularly his footwork and overall agility. Offensively, he could draw more walks. He's a below-average runner.

The Future: He has attracted comparisons to Eddie Taubensee, but the Braves believe McCann has a higher ceiling, particularly as a defender. McCann will spend 2005 at Atlanta's relocated Double-A Mississippi affiliate and could reach the majors by late 2006.



So before you go knocking his defense or whatever, and his modest minor league seasons, please go ahead and do some research first.

I knocked Martins defense, not McCanns.

Angels wrote:I knocked Martins defense, not McCanns.

i know, i wasnt referring to you. I was referring to what Bren will inevitably bring in here.

I personally would put Martin square in the elite category. He's slightly above average or better in damn near all phases of his game.....fielding, throwing, speed, avg, power, strike zone judgement, etc.

How can someone argue that Martin is not elite?? And can you find a better all-around catcher than Martin?? Sure, V-Mart has power and a better overall bat, but the defense is lacking.....Mauer is the better pure hitter, and insane arm, but health and the lack of power goes against him. Martin is the total package.....after 2008, he WILL be considered the games best catcher.

And I don't think there's any way you can argue that McCann's Martinez's equal offensively. 4 straight years of an .850+ OPS as a 28 y/o switch-hitting catcher is pretty damn good. 3 straight .300 seasons. 3 of 4 years w/ 20 + HR and 3 of 4 w/ 35+ doubles. The guy's been one of the best 3 hitting catchers in baseball for 3 straight years. McCann's got to put together a better run than the one up one down he's had so far before he can be compared to Victor.

Oh haha..nice

Honestly, there really is only 1 elite catcher in the league and it has to be Mauer. He's the complete package(when healthy) Are V-Mart and Martin very good? I would argue they are 2 of the best at that position right now. I think their defense will force them to move elsewhere. Its a huge part of their game and to call them elite at this point is ridiculous. I think you could throw the McCanns of the world into Up and Comers catagory. He's 23, he has plenty of time to develop.

[quote="Astros"]And can you find a better all-around catcher than Martin?? quote]

Refer to Aarons Molina thread. Its all the info you need on his defense.

Astros wrote:I personally would put Martin square in the elite category. He's slightly above average or better in damn near all phases of his game.....fielding, throwing, speed, avg, power, strike zone judgement, etc.

How can someone argue that Martin is not elite?? And can you find a better all-around catcher than Martin?? Sure, V-Mart has power and a better overall bat, but the defense is lacking.....Mauer is the better pure hitter, and insane arm, but health and the lack of power goes against him. Martin is the total package.....after 2008, he WILL be considered the games best catcher.

how is Martin good defensively?

All of you GM's can pick one player to build your team with:

McCann or martinez from this point forward. Pick one please.

There are plenty of firstbasemen every year. If you don't have a good defender behind the plate, it'll cost you runs.

A single turned into a double or triple after 2 pitches will cost you games in the standings.


McCann.

Liriano.

Dodgers wrote:Liriano.

haha

Martin, IMO, is the top guy.

Martinez.. honestly, his Defense was part of why I wanted to move him, however, since then, as I've been looking for a better defensive catcher I've noticed martinez's name appearing at the top of statistical evaluation lists far more often than not for this past season. cs%, fielding %, DPS, defensive win shares... defensive metrics still aren't great, maybe he just had one good season or maybe we're not giving him enough credit. I dunno.

Mauer, but of course he resides in NY. So that's a given.

Among NL catchers, Martin had the most errors (14). According to STATS LLC, Martin threw out only 28.7 percent of those who attempted to steal bases against him. That was only the fourth-best rate in the NL, and ninth-best rate in MLB among full-time catchers.


sweet top catcher bren

Sorry, I say Martinez of course...

I'm still laughing my ass off that Eddie Taubansee was McCann's comparison...That's got mega-star written all over it...

have fun in 2-3 years when VMart's at 1B

Mauer is the best, but Mauer is also the top candidate, IMO, to miss a chunk of the season due to injury.

martin is only 4th best at cs% in the NL? oh darn! I'll still take him over any other catcher. (and I would if I could)

Astros wrote: Sure, V-Mart has power and a better overall bat, but the defense is lacking.....

This, quite frankly is not accurate. V-Mart worked very hard on his defense and showed marked improvement in 2007.. For example in 2006 he only threw out 32% of potential base stealers - up from 18% in 2006.

Sortable Fielding:
NAME .....................GP GS INN TC PO A E DP FPCT RF ZR PB SB CS CS% CERA
Victor Martinez, Cle 121 118 1043.2 836 779 53 4 8 .995 7.18 .833 6 70 33 .320 4.01
Russell Martin, LA 145 143 1254.0 1164 1065 85 14 11 .988 8.25 .971 5 82 41 .333 3.95

If Victor's projection bumps his D a little, I'd have to take him. Otherwise Martin.

In the four games I took from Bren this year, my guys ran wild to the tune of 15 SB with 1 CS. Really the only way I could get doubles production out of singles hitters. Overall they went 29 of 33 (87.8%) for the season series.

Angels wrote: A single turned into a double or triple after 2 pitches will cost you games in the standings.

That's a lie, I had Mike Piazza behind the plate this year and won 100 games. Look to your own standings bro. At one point Mike Piazza (not 2007 edition of course) was definitely considered an elite catcher despite the fact that he sucked on defense because his bat was so over the top good. Granted he broke 1.000 in OPS twice and would have done it more if he had place more of his younger years outside of Dodger Stadium, but since there are so few offensive catchers out there offense can offset defense as long as the defense is at least mediocre. This year is going to be the big test for McCann, three full seasons of MLB data to evaluate. If he comes out as 2007 McCann, then it's VMart, if he comes out like 2006 then it's McCann. If a team wants to win now or in the next couple of years VMart is the choice, his defense can be mitigated by having a Yorvit Torrealba type as a D-Replacement for the late innings.

1. Martinez
2. Martin
3. McCann
4. Mauer
5. Johjima

I've had the privledge of seeing plenty of McCann living in Atlanta. He's good, but it seemed like pitchers have figured him out a little more this past season. I see him being more of the perennial .285/.355/.840 guy than his 2006 #'s. Which is still outstanding for a catcher. If I were starting a franchise, it would be a tough call. I'd like to see one more year of McCann and Martin for a sample size, because Martinez has done it for a little longer.

If this is a list of the best catchers in the game, you can't leave Posada off after the season he just had (his OPS was almost .100 pts better than Victor's - .970 - .879).

1. Martinez
2. Mauer
3. Martin
4. McCann
5. Posada

If this list was about who I'd want for the next 5 years....

1. Mauer
2. Martinez
3. Martin
4. McCann
5. Saltalamacchia

Marlins wrote:If this is a list of the best catchers in the game, you can't leave Posada off after the season he just had (his OPS was almost .100 pts better than Victor's - .970 - .879).

1. Martinez
2. Mauer
3. Martin
4. McCann
5. Posada

If this list was about who I'd want for the next 5 years....

1. Mauer
2. Martinez
3. Martin
4. McCann
5. Saltalamacchia

Thank you! Some love for Posada.. heh. Props.

McCann's ZiPS: .300/.361/.512, 23 HR