Draft rules

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:27 pm

Like I have said before. The rule as it exists now is a remnant from an earlier system. The system changed, so should the rules. If you cannot pay attention to the league enough so that you not only miss your pick but can't even bother setting up a draft queue, then you should lose the pick I don't expect the penalty to ever be applied based on the system and the GM's we have now, but if such a circumstance came up and a GM was that negligent, then they should absolutely lose the pick.

Again, where is the harm caused here that justifies a harmful penalty? Nobody is negatively affected but the GM whose pick drops down the draft order farther the longer he waits.

And Dan, since you don't seem to understand the draft rules based on your earlier post, someone like Arguelles could be drafted at any time,he just has to sign with a team by opening day.

I'm aware Arguelles can be drafted w/out signing, but in practice any player's value is hugely affected by an announcement that he has a contract and a GM no longer risks wasting the pick entirely by selecting him. It was unimportant to my argument anyway. The point was just to indicate it's unlikely a team would "strategically" miss their pick to gain some kind of advantage.

Imposing a penalty isn't justified here b/c A) it doesn't put anyone at a disadvantage but the GM who misses the pick, and B) it's not a very frequent problem (two missed picks this year by one GM total? epidemic)

Pirates · Post by **Pirates** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:29 pm

But its your pick, I dont get the point in taking away picks from people. The person's pick belongs to them and they are entitled to do what they want with it. If they are negligent then they are paying the price which is picking later. You just want the penalty to be harsher which there is no need for. Theres no reason to issue ultimatums on such a small issue.

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:37 pm

You can look at it as 'your pick', or you can look at it as your window to make a pick. You have a window 24 hours in length, which is pretty damn generous (it was 18 before), and a backup queue that you could fill with hundreds of players and somehow you think that someone inept enough to screw up both of those DESERVES to have that window extended indefinitely? You have a window of 24 hours, after that it should close. Like Aaron said, you snooze, you lose.

Dan and I do agree on one thing, the draft start date should be moved back to january 1. we've started drafts in December for a while now, but typically it has been with untimed picks, with the timer not starting until January 1. The holidays just make people's lives too crazy. January is the longest, coldest, most miserable, boring month in baseball, that's when our draft should occur, when there's less else going on in baseball and in our personal lives.

we can keep arguing with our respective brick walls, but that's not going to accomplish much. I tik both issues, draft pick window closing and moving the draft back to january 1, should go to a league-wide vote. everyone who is goign to speak their piece about either issue certainly has, especially the January 1 draft start.

Padres · Post by **Padres** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:07 pm

Jan 1st - I have no problem with ... in fact, I really agree with this.

Hold to 24 hrs max or lose pick - I would be okay with but I can see both sides ...

Since we are possibly revamping the draft rules and if we go with a league wide vote on the above I'd also like the league to vote to shitcan the prohibition about trading draft picks or draftees. This prohibition would have no useful function if we have a strict 24 hour clock.

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:13 pm

I don'tsee how you're connecting the 24 hour window to the tradding, sounds like an excuse to get rid of a rule you don't like.

Also, i should ammend my prior post. The vote on the 24 hour window is one for the ExCo to make, not a league-wide vote (at least not yet). The date move I think should be a league-wide vote since it isn't a fundamental change to the function of the league, but rather something based on what works best for everyone in the league, therfore the whole league should vote on it.

Just my humble opinion though...

Padres · Post by **Padres** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:16 pm

Padres wrote:I don'tsee how you're connecting the 24 hour window to the tradding, sounds like an excuse to get rid of a rule you don't like.

The ban used to serve a useful function ... with the changes being proposed the ban would no longer serve any purpose.

Basically it is the same arguement you put forth to take away some one's pick who does not use it in 24 hours. The system has changed ...

Athletics · Post by **Athletics** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:17 pm

I think after round 1, we should go to 12 hour time limits.

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:41 pm

WhiteSox wrote:
Padres wrote:I don'tsee how you're connecting the 24 hour window to the tradding, sounds like an excuse to get rid of a rule you don't like.
The ban used to serve a useful function ... with the changes being proposed the ban would no longer serve any purpose.

Basically it is the same arguement you put forth to take away some one's pick who does not use it in 24 hours. The system has changed ...

You're still not justifying a connection between the two.

The addition of the draft Queue is a DIRECT effect on the domain the prior rule was meant to cover. The ability to draft after your time limit was the fallback if you weren't available to draft during your window, that was why that rule was implemented. The creation of the Queue covers that, making the prior rule irrelevant. There is no connection to the trading issue.

the draft pick trading ban prevent the draft from being dragged out, a very useful function. If pick trading is made legal it WILL drag out the draft, the change to the system proposed would not prevent that. You're wrong, completely and totally wrong.

Athletics · Post by **Athletics** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:48 pm

Padres wrote:
the draft pick trading ban prevent the draft from being dragged out, a very useful function. If pick trading is made legal it WILL drag out the draft, the change to the system proposed would not prevent that. You're wrong, completely and totally wrong.

Which is why if we proposed a 12 hour time limit for rounds 2-5, this would prevent a delay and speed up the draft. Why do we need a full 24 hours from rounds 2-5 to sift through medicore prospects?

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:50 pm

Sometimes the later rounds require the most research.

Athletics · Post by **Athletics** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:51 pm

Pirates wrote:Sometimes the later rounds require the most research.

Research sooner than 5 picks in front of you. Thats what I use the queue for.

BlueJays · Post by **BlueJays** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:10 pm

what if it's a Saturday night and the GM before me picks at 8pm? chances are by the time I get home I'm not in the right state of mind to be making a pick, and then chances are I won't be up until 9am... granted I'll have my queue filled out, but if it were another GM who didn't use queue, I could see that being a problem

Athletics · Post by **Athletics** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:29 pm

Orioles wrote:what if it's a Saturday night and the GM before me picks at 8pm? chances are by the time I get home I'm not in the right state of mind to be making a pick, and then chances are I won't be up until 9am... granted I'll have my queue filled out, but if it were another GM who didn't use queue, I could see that being a problem

If GM's don't use the tools that everyone has available to them, then can that GM really say "Oh well I didn't have time to pick because of the overnight" excuse? The tools are here on this website for every GM to use. If your pick is coming up in 2 picks and you go to bed, use the goddamn Queue! Shawn didn't add that function for aesthetic appearance. I don't understand how we continue to run this league likes it's 1912 and we're keeping track of people on notepads and playing out games using Cal Ripken baseball on super nintendo. Use the website to it's fullest capacity!

Padres · Post by **Padres** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:15 am

Padres wrote:the draft pick trading ban prevent the draft from being dragged out, a very useful function. If pick trading is made legal it WILL drag out the draft, the change to the system proposed would not prevent that. You're wrong, completely and totally wrong.

First, under your proposal, a GM has 24 to make a pick or lose it totally. This is clear. You are allowing a maximum of 24 hours to utilize the pick or else ... put simply use or lose it.

I am suggesting that if we implement this [HARSH - at this point in time IMO] proposal then we should also allow a GM the maximum discretion in how to use his pick in up to 24 hours allowed including the ability to trade the pick within his "use it or lose it" time slot.

While I acknowledge that the trading could sometimes slow down the draft (particularly in the first round which did not go quickly in the IBC this year anyway), it is not an absolute just because you decried it so ... The ability to trade a pick or draftee may speed up some picks (especially in later rounds) as a GM may be waffling - or unprepared - and receive an offer from a GM who wants to trade up that he accepts and the receiving GM making the pick does so quickly. Or a GM may have a certain player who gets selected and decides he wants to move down the board as his next target will likely be much later. I would also suggest that most of the said trade discussion along these lines will happen outside of the the allowable 24 window.

The bottom line is that if you are going to propose implement what is tantamont to a new strict penalty - absolutely stripping a GM of a draft pick - then you should likewise consider increasing the GM's ability to fully utilize the draft pick in a manner to improve his team within the allowable time period.

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:31 pm

What you're proposing will result in more time being wasted/consumed and a higher likelihood of a pick being skipped because of that.
Mid draft pick trading is not connected to the question of whether or not gm's should be allowed to make up their pick outside the 24 hour limit.