IBC

I'm also tired of hearing about Mark McGwire. Where was the witchhunt when he and Sosa revived the game in 1998? I think everybody was a McGwire or Sosa fan then. Now MLB and fans throw them under the bus. Congrats on being huge hypocrites.

I'm tired of the Mitchell Report and it really has done nothing for the game. There was nothing groundbreaking about it. People we suspected (Gagne, Teajda, Clemens) were "confirmed" and some others that we didn't (Petitte) were vilified for not doing too much. I also doubt that the Mitchell Report is going to turn fans away from the game or anything of the sort. Peoples asses are still going to be in the seats, people are still going to be watching baseball, still going to talk about baseball, still going to do exactly what they did last year.

C'mon man - w/o any evidence none of us wanted to 'believe' Sosa and McGwire were taking steroids (how many writers have been apologizing for not covering that era w/o their fan cap on?) - but the facts are that they were - and McGwire and Sosa put themselves out there when they acted like dipshits at the congressional hearing.

MLB funded the Mitchell Report - so I can't believe they were trying to invest in something that was going to ultimately hurt their business. That would just be idiotic. If the goal of the report was to get a detailed report of the history of steroids, then this is a colossal failure. But, working for a major sports league, I can promise you that that was not their goal. The goal of the MLB - and God I hope this is the case - was to continue to raise the level of awareness that the league acknowledges the problem, and is working to fix it. If the league is able to pass any of Mitchell's action steps through the player's union, then this has been a victory for the league's fight against steroids.

Geez, I stopped reading this thread when it got to page 3. What are you guys still going on about???

I remember waiting in line for tickets early one morning at Fenway in 99 and the discussion turned to Mac and Sosa's historic chase the prior season. I made the observation at one point that it seemed odd that suddenly there was not one, but two guys who had made a run at the HR record and wondered if steroids were involved. Every single person around me shouted me down for even suggesting it, not one of them even wanted to consider the possibility. It was a long time before I voiced the thought again.
Now, I'm not saying I had any special insight, it was just a matter of voicing a stray though but obviously NOBODY wanted to consider the possibility.

You should listen to the ultimate racist talk about this. Stephen A. Smith said on espn radio how mark mcgwire is making money off this and isnt getting pressed hard while marion jones is crying on the steps after she got her medals taken away.

Stephen A Smith is a clown.

Smith is a clown.
But he's right on that point.

Holy shit Bren. Why don't you go support Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton while you're at it. Now, I'm not going to go off on a rant about them, because I'd be a couple hours writing it. How is McGwire making money off of this? Ever since Mac retired, he has stayed out of the public spotlight. Edmonds called him when the Mitchell Report was released to ask him if he was watching it and he was in the drive-thru of a Hardees. Mac doesn't want to be in the public spotlight, hasn't wanted to since he retired, has turned down invitations to be an instructer in spring training. He's not like Pete Rose, showing up at every card convention to charge $70 for his autograph. Marion Jones was stripped of her medals because she got caught cheating. Did anyone feel sorry for Ben Johnson in 1988? Then why should I feel sorry for Marion Jones? Because she's a woman? Because she's black? Bullshit. You cheated, you got caught, you live with the consequences. You shouldn't have blown all your money

I can't believe this thread is still going.

Mariners wrote:I can't believe this thread is still going.

+1 (and, this in my ONLY post on the thread)!

I'm not going to take the same approach as Aaron did here - but I'm just not sure what McGwire's gained by this. He went from being a sure-fire HOFer to a maybe - no one will ever look at his accomplishments the same way again. He went from being beloved to booed. He was totally emasculated during the hearings, and the Mitchell report did nothing to help him out.

In terms of their respective places in history, the biggest losers of the steroid era will end up being Palmeiro, McGwire, and Sosa - w/o question. Clemens and Bonds have been hurt, for sure, but they have never tested positive and were clearly Hall of Famers before they "supposedly" took steroids. Palmeiro, McGwire, and Sosa are three guys w/ HOF numbers who will probably, now, never make it.

McGuire made a TON of money off of his ill begotten physical gains, as did many other baseball players.
Marion Jones on the other hand has been stripped of her records, stripped of her medals and is being sued for the return of her prize money and endorsement money. once it's over, she'll have nothing, which is what she deserves for what she did.
Meanwhile, Mac, for all the boos he's gotten is still filthy rich, still Hall eligible and still has his name in the record books.

Well I'd totally disagree with you there. Olympic sports are an embarassment compared to pro sports in terms of earnings. There's no way she'll have to forfeit her individual endorsement money - that is TOTALLY one-off and would have to be done by the individual companies she worked with. She can and should be sued for the prize money for the Olympics, and the endorsement money she received as a part of Team USA..

Mark McGwire was a professional baseball player, and thus paid by a TEAM as opposed to an ORGANIZATION. A team is an independantly run business - thus they would have to be the ones to sue McGwire. Because the Cardinals made $80 bazillion dollars of McGwire's home runs, they have absolutely no reason to sue him for the pittance return he received. Then the same would happen with his sponsors as it would be with Jones' for independant sponsorships. Mark McGwire should be sued to return all money given to him by the MLB and MLB endorsers where he didn't sign an individual contract. Thus MLB would be suing him for $0.

Stephen A. is turning a bullshit point into a racist point. Aaron your response is TERRIBLY overstated though, and you really need to relax when turning a moderately small racial issue into a larger one. We get it, you're from the South - it doesn't mean every issue that touches race is a catastrophe. Stephen A. is a self-serving jackass - there are plenty of white self-serving jackasses to. The issue here is not black and white, it's Olympics vs. major sport professionals in terms of who got rich and who didn't off of this. Olympic athletes who get caught receive a MUCH harsher punishment then major sport pro athletes.

Forfeiting money... that probably won't happen. Reclaiming Cy Young and MVP Awards however might be within MLB's bounds.

Aren't the the Cy Young and MVP both BBWA awards?

Not sure, but in that case the BBWA would be the ones able to pull the awards.

Remember that the first whiff of PEDs for Marion Jones came when she was in high school. At that time she called a press conference as indignant as she was at any point during her professional career. Marion Jones made a ton of money off of steroids, she then lost it in divorces and mismanagement. Also, Mark McGwire never had a finger wagging Palmeiro-esque moment the way Marion Jones did. She cheated, she got what she deserved.

They both cheated, only Jones has gotten her just desserts.

Where is your proof that Mac cheated Bren? Just because you think he did

Cardinals wrote:Where is your proof that Mac cheated Bren? Just because you think he did

Yeah, I'm not going to argue with you on Mac any more than I'll argue with Gabe on Sosa or Jake on Bonds.

I don't argue about Bonds anymore. It'll all come out in the wash, and besides I'm a Carlos Gonzalez guy now.

Giants wrote:Geez, I stopped reading this thread when it got to page 3. What are you guys still going on about???

http://www.boomchicago.tv/node/2012