2015 NFL Playoffs

[Tigers]

Brennan,. I hate to say this but there is so much wrong in your post, it's kind of painful.

Yes, he'll do anything to win. Including EXACTLY what the other QB's and coaches in the NFL are doing, doctoring footballs to make them easier to grip and increase scoring. This is what the NFL wants!

Not another team has been caught red handed in the middle of a game providing their offense balls that were significantly deflated. Especially, a game of that magnitude and under those weather conditions where it is obvious that it will assist them.

So did Aaron Rodgers when he admited to overinflating the football. So did Eli when he admitted to all the conditioning he has his folks do. So did the Vikings, who stick their balls in an oven before giving them to the refs to inspect. You're going to hit every team that does this with the same fine, right? And if you think every other QB in the league, including Russell Wilson, isn't doing the same thing, you're kidding yourself. These are highly competitive men who will ALL do everything they can to win.

Yes, if teams are doctoring the balls outside of what the rules allow and get caught. Then they should face a similar penalty.

Slightly different situations. Baseballs are used fundamentally differently than the balls in any other sport. And you're missing the point that the NFL wants its QB's to be as comfortable with their balls as possible to promote scoring.

No, actually it isn't. The balls are thrown, the balls are caught, the balls are dropped. They are not "used fundamentally differently", other than they are obviously different sports so there isn't going to be a perfect comparison. You don't think that pitchers would love to be able to provide their own balls to use when they go to the mound?

Don't be stupid Bren. The NFL opened themselves up for teams to push the limits of the rules by changing the rules to allow teams to provide their own balls. That said, the rules state that the balls have to meet specific standards. It appears the Patriots deflated the balls to a level outside of those standards. That is cheating, clear as day. At least have the balls to admit it when your team gets caught and quit falling back on the pathetic, "whoa is the poor Patriots who everyone picks on because everyone is jealous of their winning ways".

This is ONLY an issue because it's the Patriots, it's getting ratings, and sports fans tend to be bitter, resentful, biased people. This is something all teams do, the officials knew about it, the league almost certainly knew about it, and everyone let it go because it was good for business. The difference between this and the steroids issue is that steroids are illegal, they are extremely bad for your health and if a bunch of kids with dreams of the NFL start playing with underinflated, overinflated or microwaved balls, it doesn't freaking matter. Aside from maybe the stink from the microwave.

No, it is an issue because the balls were significantly outside the standards the NFL set. If the Patriots are proven to have willingly done this. Then they should suffer the consequences.

Your attempt to justify the difference between this and steriods is pure comedy. Thanks!

[Tigers]

Speaking of steriods.....you know.....you just can't make this shit up! Arod.....really? lol!

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-l ... 54572.html

[Royals]

If the Patriots are proven to have willingly done this. Then they should suffer the consequences.

If the Patriots tampered with balls after the officials inspected them, then yes, they should. If the officials approved the Pats underinflated balls for use in the game, then the NFL shouldn't so much as fart in the direction of the Pats. It's on the officials for approving them and on the league itself for tolerating/encouraging it

No, actually it isn't.

Yes Brennan, it actually IS fundamentally different. In football, basketball, soccer, and hockey, the player or team with possession of the ball is on offense. In baseball, it is on defense, that makes the nature of the ball and the way it is handled fundamentally different. Further differentiating itself from basketball, hockey and soccer, the ball in football rarely changes sides. If each side is playing with their preferred balls which are made to feel the way they want them to feel, who the fuck cares? I don't give a shit if Eli spends 6 years massaging the perfect ball. If Aaron Rodgers wants one inflated to 25 psi because he has sasquatch hands, big fucking deal. As long as everyone gets to make the ball the way they want it, and it sounds like they do, it doesn't matter.

Not another team has been caught red handed in the middle of a game providing their offense balls that were significantly deflated.

You're right, no one else has been caught red-handed, they've just confessed to doing it openly, because it's not a big deal. Nobody cares... until the Patriots are involved, and then it's some huge scandal.

I'm sure the NFL is talking to other QBs asking what they do and how they like their balls. Then they'll give the Pats a slap on the wrist penalty, because they have to been seen to be Doing Something even though every team is doing the same thing. Then in the offseason, they'll either loosen up the rules, proving that yes, it really is just about the scoring, or they'll tighten them up and drive scoring down in the interest of the illusion of parity.

Side note: I don't know if I am proud or disappointed that nobody has made a testicle joke yet.

[Royals]

Speaking of steriods.....you know.....you just can't make this shit up! Arod.....really? lol!

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-l ... 54572.html

WTF can even be said to that. It mocks itself.

[Tigers]

Bren, just for clarity sake........there isn't any rules against "doctoring" footballs in the NFL. Providing footballs that do not meet the below standards......well that is a different subject.


Rule 2 The Ball
Section 1
BALL DIMENSIONS
The Ball must be a “Wilson,” hand selected, bearing the signature of the Commissioner of the League, Roger Goodell. The ball shall be made up of an inflated (12 1/2 to 13 1/2 pounds) urethane bladder enclosed in a pebble grained, leather case (natural tan color) without corrugations of any kind. It shall have the form of a prolate spheroid and the size and weight shall be: long axis, 11 to 11 1/4 inches; long circumference, 28 to 28 1/2 inches; short circumference, 21 to 21 1/4 inches; weight, 14 to 15 ounces.

The Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications. A pump is to be furnished by the home club, and the balls shall remain under the supervision of the Referee until they are delivered to the ball attendant just prior to the start of the game.

Section 2
BALL SUPPLY
Each team will make 12 primary balls available for testing by the Referee two hours and 15 minutes prior to the starting time of the game to meet League requirements. The home team will also make 12 backup balls available for testing in all stadiums. In addition, the visitors, at their discretion, may bring 12 backup balls to be tested by the Referee for games held in outdoor stadiums. For all games, eight new footballs, sealed in a special box and shipped by the manufacturer to the Referee, will be opened in the officials’ locker room two hours and 15 minutes prior to the starting time of the game.

These balls are to be specially marked by the Referee and used exclusively for the kicking game.

In the event a home team ball does not conform to specifications, or its supply is exhausted, the Referee shall secure a proper ball from the visitors and, failing that, use the best available ball. Any such circumstances must be reported to the Commissioner.

In case of rain or a wet, muddy, or slippery field, a playable ball shall be used at the request of the offensive team’s center. The Game Clock shall not stop for such action (unless undue delay occurs).

Note: It is the responsibility of the home team to furnish playable balls at all times by attendants from either side of the playing
field.


Obviously, this brings up the questions of chain of custody and what happened to the balls before and after they were checked, and if there were all checked or if the Patriots only gave the Referee the one ball to check.

[Tigers]

If the Patriots tampered with balls after the officials inspected them, then yes, they should. If the officials approved the Pats underinflated balls for use in the game, then the NFL shouldn't so much as fart in the direction of the Pats. It's on the officials for approving them and on the league itself for tolerating/encouraging it

It means the Referee was lazy and didn't do his job to properly inspect all the balls before the game. It doesn't mean the Patriots didn't cheat or shouldn't be punished for doing it IF they are shown to have done this intentionally. The NFL still has to prove that it was an intentional act, even though it looks oddly suspicious as hell.

Yes Brennan, it actually IS fundamentally different. In football, basketball, soccer, and hockey, the player or team with possession of the ball is on offense. In baseball, it is on defense, that makes the nature of the ball and the way it is handled fundamentally different. Further differentiating itself from basketball, hockey and soccer, the ball in football rarely changes sides. If each side is playing with their preferred balls which are made to feel the way they want them to feel, who the fuck cares?

Bren, nobody cares, as long as they follow the basic standards the NFL has written into the rules.

Putting the balls in a heater to warm them up. Not against the Rules.
Rubbing the balls until Eli has a hard on. Not against the Rules.
Massaging the balls until the brand new "shine" is off the ball. Not against the Rules.

Deflating balls below the league determined standard. AGAINST THE RULES.

Pretty simple really.

I don't give a shit if Eli spends 6 years massaging the perfect ball. If Aaron Rodgers wants one inflated to 25 psi because he has sasquatch hands, big fucking deal. As long as everyone gets to make the ball the way they want it, and it sounds like they do, it doesn't matter.

Actually, if Aaron Rodgers inflates his balls to 25 psi it does matter. It is against the rules. Belichick doesn't get to pick and choose which rules he follows and which ones he doesn't. If he willingly breaks the rules then he and the Patriots should be punished, just like any other team in the league.

If the NFL wants to change those rules again in the offseason, then that is their prerogative. Until then, it is a violation of the rules to deflate footballs below the standard.

You're right, no one else has been caught red-handed, they've just confessed to doing it openly, because it's not a big deal. Nobody cares... until the Patriots are involved, and then it's some huge scandal.

Actually, most of the examples you keep trying to use to justify your stance that everyone in the NFL is breaking this rule are not accurate. The only one that would be is Aaron Rodgers and I guess I have yet to see his quote where he admits to having his team over-inflate games balls and using those in the game.


Belichick brings all the attention he gets upon himself. Don't get caught cheating if you don't want the attention. This constant, "everyone picks on the Patriots only because they are the Patriots" is about as sad and egotistical as it gets. You really need to come up with a better cop out.

This is getting attention because in one of the most important games of the season someone underinflated 11 of the 12 home team footballs that were being used in the game. Is it a coincidence that the way the balls were underinflated provides a benefit to that home team? I guess we'll find out what the league thinks.

I'm sure the NFL is talking to other QBs asking what they do and how they like their balls.

No, the NFL is probably asking themselves how did we let Bill Belichick make us look like bafoons, yet again? What are we going to do to try and save some face so everyone will go back to talking about why Marshawn Lynch won't talk to the press instead of "deflate-gate" for the next two weeks?

Then they'll give the Pats a slap on the wrist penalty, because they have to been seen to be Doing Something even though every team is doing the same thing. Then in the offseason, they'll either loosen up the rules, proving that yes, it really is just about the scoring, or they'll tighten them up and drive scoring down in the interest of the illusion of parity.

Every team is not doing the same thing. No other team has been shown to be or admitted to deflating footballs below the NFL standard during games. If they do, then punish them too.

If the NFL wants to change the rules to allow teams to do whatever they want with the footballs in the future. That's fine, though I imagine that could lead to some odd occurances. Play within the rules you are given or face the consequences if/when you get caught.

[Cardinals]

Bren, just for clarity sake........there isn't any rules against "doctoring" footballs in the NFL. Providing footballs that do not meet the below standards......well that is a different subject.

This works in the Patriots' favor, yeah? It's a failure by Walt Anderson and his crew if they approved the footballs that the Pats used.

[BlueJays]

So to clarify: were the balls that were provided to the officiating crew prior to the game altered or replaced after approval?

[Tigers]

Bren, just for clarity sake........there isn't any rules against "doctoring" footballs in the NFL. Providing footballs that do not meet the below standards......well that is a different subject.

This works in the Patriots' favor, yeah? It's a failure by Walt Anderson and his crew if they approved the footballs that the Pats used.

Yes, the whole chain of custody and whether or not the Referee inspected all the footballs or just the one that was inflated to the NFL standards raises the question of how much blame goes on each party. Still can be a lot of scenarios here that they have to sort through.

1) Did the Referee inspect all the balls before the game and just miss the fact that 11 of the 12 were under inflated? Or did he only inspect the one ball? If so, why'd he only inspect the one?

2) Did the Referee inspect all the balls and they were all inflated to NFL standards at the time the Referee took possession of the balls? and then were deflated after inspection? If so by whom and at who's instructions?

At the end of the day, whether it helps or hurts the Patriots based on the scenario is anyones guess.

The fact that it happened is a black spot on both the NFL and the Patriots at this point, IMO. I mean really, as finicky as Bren tells us QB's are about their balls, does anyone think this happened without the explicit knowledge of Brady and the Pats?

Whether or not someone thinks the Pats are free and clear from blame because they deflated the balls but were not caught by the Referee's pre-game inspection is, I guess everyone's own decision to make.

[Tigers]

So to clarify: were the balls that were provided to the officiating crew prior to the game altered or replaced after approval?

That is a big question and still not known at this time, as far as I can tell.

Obviously, if the balls were all inspected propberly and then altered afterwards at the Pats instruction. That looks very, very bad for the Pats.

If the Pats deflated 11 of their 12 balls, knowing they could sneak them through the inspection process by giving the Referee the one ball to inspect. Then I think both parties are guilty of infractions.

If, by some chance, the balls were submitted for inspection without the knowledge of the Pats that 11 of the 12 were underinflated and the Referee just missed it. Then I think the Referee should face discipline action for not doing his job.

[Cardinals]

So to clarify: were the balls that were provided to the officiating crew prior to the game altered or replaced after approval?

It's safe to assume that for the AFC Championship Game that the balls were provided to the referees prior to the game. There's no chance they would've missed this step. If they did, that's incredible.

FWIW as well: https://twitter.com/futuraprime/status/ ... 0123982848

Assume that the balls were inspected, approved by the refs (fairly safe assumption, I think). They could've come in at 12.5 PSI, the lowest legal amount, and deflated over the course of the last two days because of changes in climate -- going from a heated room where the initial inspection occurs, to the field of play when it was 50s into 40s and rainy, and back to a heated room/locker/wherever.

If they did deflate the balls on the sideline or post-inspection, that's going to look bad, and they'll probably lose another first round pick. But I still think it's jumping to conclusions at this point.

[Tigers]

So to clarify: were the balls that were provided to the officiating crew prior to the game altered or replaced after approval?

It's safe to assume that for the AFC Championship Game that the balls were provided to the referees prior to the game. There's no chance they would've missed this step. If they did, that's incredible.

FWIW as well: https://twitter.com/futuraprime/status/ ... 0123982848

Assume that the balls were inspected, approved by the refs (fairly safe assumption, I think). They could've come in at 12.5 PSI, the lowest legal amount, and deflated over the course of the last two days because of changes in climate -- going from a heated room where the initial inspection occurs, to the field of play when it was 50s into 40s and rainy, and back to a heated room/locker/wherever.

If they did deflate the balls on the sideline or post-inspection, that's going to look bad, and they'll probably lose another first round pick. But I still think it's jumping to conclusions at this point.

Balls won't/don't deflate unless they have a hole in them. If they were originally measured in a hot room and then played in cooler temps, the pressure could go down due to the molecules slowing down with the temp, but the pressure would return when the balls were returned to the hot room.

It will be interesting to see what comes out of the review. Will probably end up more like the "Independent Third Party" review the NFL hired for the Ray Rice case.

[Royals]

This constant, "everyone picks on the Patriots only because they are the Patriots" is about as sad and egotistical as it gets. You really need to come up with a better cop out.

Well let's see, we have Phil Simms and Jim Nantz on national TV discussing Aaron Rodgers telling them he overinflates the balls because he can grip them better. And nobody bats a fucking eye. So yeah, it IS a targeted thing. Rodgers also bitches about those occasions when Refs have deflated his overinflated balls. But absolutely nobody is talking about punishing Rodgers or the Packers even though Rodgers has admitted to using overinflated balls in games.

http://deadspin.com/aaron-rodgers-likes ... 1680676328
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2014/st ... -footballs

Also, have you read what Eli Manning has his equipment folks do to the balls? It's insane and goes far beyond air pressure. I know it doesn't support your position so you're ignoring or dismissing it, but you should read the article about Eli's balls. Some lower PSI is a drop in the bucket compared to how he has his guys doctor the balls.

[BlueJays]

So to clarify: were the balls that were provided to the officiating crew prior to the game altered or replaced after approval?

It's safe to assume that for the AFC Championship Game that the balls were provided to the referees prior to the game. There's no chance they would've missed this step. If they did, that's incredible.

FWIW as well: https://twitter.com/futuraprime/status/ ... 0123982848

Assume that the balls were inspected, approved by the refs (fairly safe assumption, I think). They could've come in at 12.5 PSI, the lowest legal amount, and deflated over the course of the last two days because of changes in climate -- going from a heated room where the initial inspection occurs, to the field of play when it was 50s into 40s and rainy, and back to a heated room/locker/wherever.

If they did deflate the balls on the sideline or post-inspection, that's going to look bad, and they'll probably lose another first round pick. But I still think it's jumping to conclusions at this point.

Balls won't/don't deflate unless they have a hole in them. If they were originally measured in a hot room and then played in cooler temps, the pressure could go down due to the molecules slowing down with the temp, but the pressure would return when the balls were returned to the hot room.

It will be interesting to see what comes out of the review. Will probably end up more like the "Independent Third Party" review the NFL hired for the Ray Rice case.

So are they saying post game they measured the pressure in the balls in the same room where they were initially inspected and found them to be underfilled? And how far apart in time was the pre-game and post-game inspections?

[Tigers]

This constant, "everyone picks on the Patriots only because they are the Patriots" is about as sad and egotistical as it gets. You really need to come up with a better cop out.

Well let's see, we have Phil Simms and Jim Nantz on national TV discussing Aaron Rodgers telling them he overinflates the balls because he can grip them better. And nobody bats a fucking eye. So yeah, it IS a targeted thing. Rodgers also bitches about those occasions when Refs have deflated his overinflated balls. But absolutely nobody is talking about punishing Rodgers or the Packers even though Rodgers has admitted to using overinflated balls in games.

http://deadspin.com/aaron-rodgers-likes ... 1680676328
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2014/st ... -footballs

Also, have you read what Eli Manning has his equipment folks do to the balls? It's insane and goes far beyond air pressure. I know it doesn't support your position so you're ignoring or dismissing it, but you should read the article about Eli's balls. Some lower PSI is a drop in the bucket compared to how he has his guys doctor the balls.

Rodgers statement was that the Referees deflate his balls (So it would appear that McCarthy isn't the only one on the Packers who has deflated balls).

Once again, Eli messaging his balls until they are blue isn't against the rules.

Rodgers admitting that they submit balls for inspection that are outside the limits should raise a red flag for the league and could go a long ways toward how the NFL rules on the Patriots deflated balls.

If it is standard practice for Referees to inspect the balls and then adjust the air pressure on the spot if they are found to be outside the limits. Then the question will be, why didn't the Referee make a similar adjustment to the Patriots balls if he found them to be below the PSI limit? Why did the Referee knowingly let the deflated balls through inspection without adjusting them?

If the Referee just plain didn't catch it and it is common practice for other teams to submit balls in a similar fashion only to have the Referee adjust the pressure when they catch it, then I don't think the NFL will have much of a leg to stand on to discipline the Pats.

If it comes out that the Referee inspected the balls and all were within the PSI limits, but were then adjusted later after the inspection, then I think the Pats get hit with a disciplinary action.

[Cardinals]

Pre-game is 2 hours and 15 minutes before kick off. Post-game, not sure how long they waited. It could have been until yesterday.

[Yankees]

At the gym ESPN said the balls were doctored after the official inspection. I'm not sure how confirmed that is...but that was the report.

Also, in a odd twist, I used to deflate the balls post-official inspection when I quarterbacked JV football my freshman year. I could hold them better, was more accurate on my throws, and could throw the ball farther based on my ability to grip the balls. This was crucial for me because, while I have sasquatch feet, I have 5'7" man hands. I'm not sure I believe that deflated footballs are a 45-7 comeback advantage, but they are absolutely an advantage.

I also have to ask, Bren, why does it even matter what others are doing? That doesn't make the Patriots any less wrong, unless I missed something. It was the Colts LB who made the interception that reported, and if you watched the ESPN roundtable with Brunell, Bettis, & Riddick on the ball...you'd realize just how doctored 2 psi's or whatever is. The first reaction for both Brunell and Bettis was...'holy crap that's an advantage in that weather'.

Just read the Eli article, too. He's doing absolutely nothing wrong. It sounds completely OCD and is certainly 'gaming the rules'...but none of it is illegal, and all the balls are checked out by the refs. The Aaron Rodgers thing should definitely be checked into...except all his balls have passed testing. This is a scandal because, it appears, the Patriots VERY knowingly went out of their way to cheat and got caught. No one's saying that they shouldn't play in the Super Bowl...but they deserve everything that comes to them otherwise, as well as the media attention surrounding their cheating.

[Tigers]

So are they saying post game they measured the pressure in the balls in the same room where they were initially inspected and found them to be underfilled? And how far apart in time was the pre-game and post-game inspections?

No, I'm not saying anything about where the NFL measured the PSI on the footballs. I was mearly responding to JP's comment and link to the study on the impact of temp on PSI.

I don't know when they measured them or where they measured the PSI on the balls. All that I have seen is that it has been reported that 11 of the 12 balls failed the PSI inspection/measurement that took place some time between the end of the game and when it was reported last night.

Nothing else has been reported that I know of. Lots of speculation at this point.

[BlueJays]

I prefered overinflated even though my hands aren't that big. Felt like felt like the ball snapped better off my index finger on my throws.

(I was a backup quarterback in junior high, oh yea...)

[Yankees]

For me, overinflated felt like I was trying to throw a watermelon.

[Cardinals]

I prefer overinflated as well for flag football. Can throw it harder and further.

[Guardians]

I prefer Tony to draft prior to taking 24 hours for a 5th round pick who likely will get dropped within a year. Can we have Tony 80% and Bren 20%?

[Tigers]

Get ready for it. Russell Wilson's new marketing campaigne leading up to the Super Bowl.


"I like my balls pumped all the way up to.........12!"

Russell Wilson

[Phillies]

I prefer Tony to draft prior to taking 24 hours for a 5th round pick who likely will get dropped within a year. Can we have Tony 80% and Bren 20%?

Haven't seen either of them around all day...

[Royals]

My bad, I saw our pick was on the clock last night when I turned in and promptly forgot about it.
-B

What does it matter, Brett, if everyone is cheating in the same way, the officials and the league know about it, but only one team gets penalized? Think about that one for a while and tell me why it shouldn't matter that one team gets singled out from all the others. By all means, make a case for penalizing only one team when others have openly discussed having broken that same rule.
Personally, I find the lack of commentary on the issue by the other QBs in the NFL to be pretty interesting. Nobody seems to have commented on it, aside from Aaron Rodgers who has said that making the ball more comfortable for other QBs should be against the rules, but the NFL should totally let him pump the ball up more to give him an edge. He knows it works because he's done it.