Important Postseason Announcement

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:43 pm

The initial results of the 2017 ALCS and all NL postseason series have been deemed ineligible by ExCo.

The Phillies used Koji Uehara extensively in both the NLDS and NLCS. Uehara has not pitched since September 2 due to injury. Since this a clear injury violation and a 2-week DL penalty is not fitting, the series is to be replayed.

The Pirates used Shawn Kelley in Game 1 of the NLDS. Kelley was injured late in the season, and like Uehara, slipped through the cracks. Kelley pitched 2/3rds of an inning in Game 1 against Washington. Regardless of the minimal usage, an ineligible player played in the series, and the games are to be replayed.

The ALCS will be replayed from Game 1. Corey Seager was left off Los Angeles’ NLCS roster, but since the games began before MLB rosters were announced, the games were played with Seager on the field.

ExCo accepts culpability in not having the rules page updated, but the original rule was changed in 2008 by a unanimous ExCo vote, and was posted to the league here: viewtopic.php?t=1806.

The IBC has been following the above injury guideline ever since, and the rule had been enforced as recently as the 2015 ALCS and World Series, when Brett Cecil was left off Toronto’s ALCS roster and subsequently, Detroit’s ALCS Roster. Addison Russell was left off Chicago’s NLCS roster, and subsequently, Texas’ ALCS and World Series roster.

ExCo accepts the fault in not having this rule communicated better, but to ensure fair play, we are continuing to enforce this rule as it stands.

It is worth noting the Pittsburgh, Philadelphia and Detroit did nothing nefarious. The games are being replayed to ensure that the postseason is played fairly. DL penalties are administered during the regular season and are inadequate in terms of postseason play.

ExCo will review injury protocol for the postseason and regular season extensively this offseason to ensure the fairest playing field for all 30 GMs.

Phillies · Post by **Phillies** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:00 pm

Furthermore, Z owes me a draft pick for Uehara.

Angels · Post by **Angels** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:24 am

Does Daniel Murphy get to play for the Phillies? He’s having knee surgery right now.

Phillies · Post by **Phillies** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:56 am

Mets · Post by **Mets** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:25 am

I think it's BS that if a player is left off a roster that they are ineligible. Seems to be micromanaging at this point. Kelly/Uehara make sense but teams shouldn't be penalized just because MLB teams/players make the postseason. There are plenty of teams that didn't make the playoffs that have players undergoing surgery, etc. By rule, we should inventory all teams/players across the league to find players that aren't eligible. How many players would have been left off playoff rosters if their teams had made the playoffs? There's no way to quantify this.

Padres · Post by **Padres** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:04 am

Mets wrote:I think it's BS that if a player is left off a roster that they are ineligible. Seems to be micromanaging at this point. Kelly/Uehara make sense but teams shouldn't be penalized just because MLB teams/players make the postseason. There are plenty of teams that didn't make the playoffs that have players undergoing surgery, etc. By rule, we should inventory all teams/players across the league to find players that aren't eligible. How many players would have been left off playoff rosters if their teams had made the playoffs? There's no way to quantify this.

I can assure you John that your viewpoint has been discussed within ExCo and we believe we will present a fair and reasonable procedure to take your viewpoint into consideration.

Reds · Post by **Reds** » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:01 am

Mets wrote:I think it's BS that if a player is left off a roster that they are ineligible. Seems to be micromanaging at this point. Kelly/Uehara make sense but teams shouldn't be penalized just because MLB teams/players make the postseason. There are plenty of teams that didn't make the playoffs that have players undergoing surgery, etc. By rule, we should inventory all teams/players across the league to find players that aren't eligible. How many players would have been left off playoff rosters if their teams had made the playoffs? There's no way to quantify this.

This is a point of view I had not considered, and one that is spot on.

Marlins · Post by **Marlins** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:51 am

This is why we originally set the rule that there is no injuries once the playoffs start. (and the rule as listed in our oh so important "Rules" link on the site)

I think we should have all playoff teams submit their 25 man rosters (and any other players they think they might add to their roster for subsequent series) before any playoff games are simmed/played and have a 1-2 man group review to confirm eligibility (or simply have each opponent review their rosters) and once set those players eligible for entire postseason.

Yes, there will still be the gray area of some players due to lack of DL use in September in MLB, but at least we get everything worked out before a single game is simmed.

BlueJays · Post by **BlueJays** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:42 am

I had suggested to Pat and JP that we "self-police", being that before you start your series, send your roster to your opponent and let them decide if everything is good.

Mets · Post by **Mets** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:05 am

For example purpose:

Daniel Murphy had been playing on a bad knee for at least most of September. If the Nationals were not in contention he would have been shut down. At the very least, if the Nationals were not in the playoffs he would have had surgery immediately after the season (as evident by how quickly he had it once the Nats were knocked out). His eligibility on the IBC Phillies is linked directly to the MLB success of the Nationals. I don't see how we can manage injuries at this level. I like the idea ignoring injuries once the post season starts unless there's a major injury during the post season such as a broken leg, etc. where it's not subjective at all.

Phillies · Post by **Phillies** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:11 am

Mets wrote:For example purpose:

Daniel Murphy had been playing on a bad knee for at least most of September. If the Nationals were not in contention he would have been shut down. At the very least, if the Nationals were not in the playoffs he would have had surgery immediately after the season (as evident by how quickly he had it once the Nats were knocked out). His eligibility on the IBC Phillies is linked directly to the MLB success of the Nationals. I don't see how we can manage injuries at this level. I like the idea ignoring injuries once the post season starts unless there's a major injury during the post season such as a broken leg, etc. where it's not subjective at all.

We need a like button.

Angels · Post by **Angels** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:23 am

Mets wrote:For example purpose:

Daniel Murphy had been playing on a bad knee for at least most of September. If the Nationals were not in contention he would have been shut down. At the very least, if the Nationals were not in the playoffs he would have had surgery immediately after the season (as evident by how quickly he had it once the Nats were knocked out). His eligibility on the IBC Phillies is linked directly to the MLB success of the Nationals. I don't see how we can manage injuries at this level. I like the idea ignoring injuries once the post season starts unless there's a major injury during the post season such as a broken leg, etc. where it's not subjective at all.

Agree completely. You risk penalizing teams whose players make deep MLB postseason runs. I like the idea of setting playoff rosters on the last day of the MLB season (also to include MiLB prospects, if you're using them). Then, yes, I think it makes to sense to revisit as we go in case of serious injuries incurred during postseason play. This seems very reasonable. As it is now, it seems crazy that Seager would be ineligible but Murphy could play because Seager's on a better MLB team but has a much less significant injury.

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:33 am

Indians wrote:
Mets wrote:For example purpose:

Daniel Murphy had been playing on a bad knee for at least most of September. If the Nationals were not in contention he would have been shut down. At the very least, if the Nationals were not in the playoffs he would have had surgery immediately after the season (as evident by how quickly he had it once the Nats were knocked out). His eligibility on the IBC Phillies is linked directly to the MLB success of the Nationals. I don't see how we can manage injuries at this level. I like the idea ignoring injuries once the post season starts unless there's a major injury during the post season such as a broken leg, etc. where it's not subjective at all.
Agree completely. You risk penalizing teams whose players make deep MLB postseason runs. I like the idea of setting playoff rosters on the last day of the MLB season (also to include MiLB prospects, if you're using them). Then, yes, I think it makes to sense to revisit as we go in case of serious injuries incurred during postseason play. This seems very reasonable. As it is now, it seems crazy that Seager would be ineligible but Murphy could play because Seager's on a better MLB team but has a much less significant injury.

While I agree and we're going to revisit the rule this offseason, I will say it's not terribly crazy. Murphy was able to play in Washington's final postseason game. It's extremely probable that this procedure was set for whenever Murphy's season ended.

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:34 am

Mets wrote:For example purpose:

Daniel Murphy had been playing on a bad knee for at least most of September. If the Nationals were not in contention he would have been shut down. At the very least, if the Nationals were not in the playoffs he would have had surgery immediately after the season (as evident by how quickly he had it once the Nats were knocked out). His eligibility on the IBC Phillies is linked directly to the MLB success of the Nationals. I don't see how we can manage injuries at this level. I like the idea ignoring injuries once the post season starts unless there's a major injury during the post season such as a broken leg, etc. where it's not subjective at all.

I agree that we need to look at the rule again, but I don't believe in making exceptions. Either we're going to stop injuries once the postseason starts or continue to use them. Making exceptions for severity doesn't make a lot of sense. If so, then the current criteria of needing to be on your team's postseason roster is sufficient as is.

Marlins · Post by **Marlins** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:38 pm

In the spirit of not taking away from the 2017 IBC Post Season, I suggest we leave this conversation be until mid-November and we pick this up then.

I think there are a lot of ideas on how to best deal with post-season roster eligibility as well as general roster policing, think of ideas and lets have a league-wide discussion. And I think we should also make this the offseason we have a valid, up to date rules section on the site.

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:17 pm

Marlins wrote:This is why we originally set the rule that there is no injuries once the playoffs start. (and the rule as listed in our oh so important "Rules" link on the site)

Arguably, since the Rules link was, as I was told by JP, reviewed, updated and accepted in the last offseason by theExCo (essentially recertified), then that is currently the rule. But perhaps that didn't actually happen.

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:28 am

What's this thread about? Irritatingly gigantic signatures?