Nationals get:
Tyler Thornburg
James 10-Paxton
Matt 11-Skole
Alen 0-Hanson
Nick 11-Tropeano
David 12-Dahl
Royals get:
Carlos Beltran
Matt Cain
Alberto Callaspo
Chris Davis
Says Z:
Says Gudim:First of all Gudim and I have been in the league for over 6 years each. The fact that any of our deals with each other is vetoed is absurd. I'm not trying to be a dick by saying that - it just sucks to have given a LOT of time (10 years) to a league and people say back they don't trust you.
Second, I signed on to take the biggest turd of a team in '03. I also had no idea what a prospect was until 2006-07ish - so you can imagine how bad my team was. Since then I did a complete rebuild of my team by bringing in prospects. I have a precedent here that I might know what I'm doing.
On to the trade itself. Cain is clearly the star of the show. My goal in moving Cain was to get 3 top 100 prospects, 3 good young MLB players or a combination of those 2 things. In this trade I got 4 top 100 players (Paxton, Skole, Dahl, Hanson), and 2 players with limited upside admittedly - but seem to be pretty surefire mid-rotation starters. That's nothing to sneeze at.
So, out of this deal, I get a potential #2 starter, my #4 hitter, my #3 hitter, and my leadoff hitter - plus two guys who will fill out my rotation along with Gilmartin, Blackburn, Wisler, Wood, Black, Light, McDonald - plus whoever I get from the rest of my players on the block.
The framework of the deal that we kept beating around was various players/forms of Cain/Davis/Callaspo for the players above minus Thornburg and Dahl. For me, I needed Dahl in this deal. Giving up a player with an injury history, advanced in age, and coming off his worst ops since 2005 (given still a 4 win player) was worth it to me.
Callaspo is decent but is not the droid I'm looking for. Davis is a big slugger who will always have holes in his game.
Also, this makes my other deals look dumb. There aren't a ton of teams looking to acquire veteran players who have a glut of young talent like Jason does. Either teams are hording young talent, or they are contending. Jason was in a position to give me the talent I was looking for, and to help him in the moment.
Anyway, much of what I have to say will echo Z's argument.
First of all, we both have a baseline history of competence in this league. There's a lot more people in this league that think I'm an idiot than think Z is an idiot, but we've both managed to rebuild and maintain a competitive team most of the time.
Also, this is an opportunistic trade for both of us. I have failed to trade any of my vets for over a year now (with an exception here and there). I have been patiently collecting prospects for a few years in an effort to do exactly what happened here.
These prospects I traded weren't helping me at all. I can sit on them until they develop for another three years and suffer through more mediocrity. In this trade, I address four huge holes. Cain pushes everyone in my rotation back a slot and makes it a true strength rather than a position of depth. Chris Davis at 1B is better than...everything I have on my roster. I'm gambling that Beltran still rates at CF and gives me a defensively atrocious OF with solid bats, and Callaspo > Punto, as long as he rates at SS.
For Z's side of the trade, I think this makes a ton of sense. The entire point of prospects is that you take a risk and hope they develop. He gets someone to anchor his rotation in Paxton. Skole looks like Davis with less power but better plate discipline. Tropeano makes a solid mid-to-back of the rotation SP. Thornburg profiles as a better version of Tropeano with better stuff. Hanson and Dahl are the two huge wild cards in this equation, but they are both highly regarded by the prospectors on the interweb. Both have superstar upside.
Cain is a huge talent for Z to trade. No one argues this. But aside from Davis, the others don't have any long term value for him. Beltran has one to two years left, unless he somehow ends up in the AL DHing. He happened to get a good projection this year. Callaspo is probably in the same boat, but he's not a game changer, unless Nick Punto is your starting SS.
That's my appeal. In my opinion, this has devolved into a group of people telling to vets how to run their teams. I don't think it's necessary, because neither one of us neither to be protected from ourselves, and we're not doing the league a disservice.
