Draft Eligibility Reminder

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:14 pm

All players must be signed by 12/31/11 in order to be eligible for our draft. That includes somebody like Yu Darvish, who will be posted prior to that. He still needs to be signed prior to 12/31/11 in order to be eligible for the draft, despite his posting ending tomorrow.

Pretty cut and dry and eliminates any grey area that we might have had in the past.

Marlins · Post by **Marlins** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:42 pm

Is Maels Fucking Rodriguez still eligible?

RedSox · Post by **RedSox** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:12 am

Pirates wrote:All players must be signed by 12/31/11 in order to be eligible for our draft. That includes somebody like Yu Darvish, who will be posted prior to that. He still needs to be signed prior to 12/31/11 in order to be eligible for the draft, despite his posting ending tomorrow.

Pretty cut and dry and eliminates any grey area that we might have had in the past.

Can you point me to the league discussion on this? I can't seem to find it. Makes perfect sense for guys with no pro experience, but seems a little shortsighted considering most Japanese players aren't even posted until after winter meetings and then have 30 days to sign.

Dodgers · Post by **Dodgers** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:37 pm

Pat, there was no league-wide discussion on this (yet). ExCo discussed internally about both whether this should be a league-wide vote or an ExCo vote as well as whether to post this. If the league would like to discuss before having ExCo revote, that can certainly happen, but a reminder that this is not really a rule change so much as a reminder (the rule had to be established due to players who would announce as signed in the middle of our draft and fall into someone's hands who just happened to be lucky enough to be on the clock).

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:10 pm

The advantage to the current rule is that when you're signing a FA (especially an international player) you only have to worry about what year he signed. It can mean a lot less digging, since the exact signing date isn't always easy to find. A couple of possible solutions:

1. A player must be signed or posted by his foreign team by December 31 of the prior year to be eligible for the draft.

- This would at least add big-contract Japanese pros to the mix, who are the most likely to receive projections.

2. Players signing before the first pick goes on the clock are eligible to be drafted. Any player signing after December 31 of the previous year but going undrafted returns to the pool of players eligible for the next season's draft (and thus can't be added as a FA until after the next draft, if again undrafted).

- I like the first one better, but thought I'd throw another suggestion out as well. This would still put some big-money FA int'l players at risk of missing our draft, but would also allow a bigger window for signing.

Mets · Post by **Mets** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:32 pm

This has, and always will be an interesting topic. I think Dan has suggested two very plausible options, and I hope they get considered prior to this years draft start.

RedSox · Post by **RedSox** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:58 pm

Dodgers wrote:Pat, there was no league-wide discussion on this (yet). ExCo discussed internally about both whether this should be a league-wide vote or an ExCo vote as well as whether to post this. If the league would like to discuss before having ExCo revote, that can certainly happen, but a reminder that this is not really a rule change so much as a reminder (the rule had to be established due to players who would announce as signed in the middle of our draft and fall into someone's hands who just happened to be lucky enough to be on the clock).

This is the rule as written:

2. A player will be returned to the draft pool for the next season under the following conditions. If the player was drafted by an MLB team and does not sign a new contract before the next MLB draft (the 2007 MLB draft in the example above). If the player is a Cuban defector or is from another professional league such as Japan, Korea or Mexico and does not sign a contract with an MLB team by opening day (Opening Day of the 2007 season in the example above). If the does not fall under one of these two categories, he must have signed a contract with an MLB team prior to January first of that year (prior to January 1st of 2007 in the example above).

Let's use JP's example of Yu Darvish. By the rules, as a Japanese pro he could be drafted every year but could only be kept if he signed a contract prior to opening day of the current draft year. Otherwise he returns to the next year's draft pool. According to JP's post he is ineligible to be drafted at all unless he signs in the next 12 days. That seems like a definite rules change, not a reminder.

Again I have no problem with setting a hard date for Latin babies who've never played an inning of pro ball. See red text above.

Who is this change supposed to benefit/protect? Does this go back to the Saito signing? I really doubt there are any 'surprise' postings or signings anymore. The level of GM knowledge is such now that even 16 year old Latin players have trade value. If a GM wants to draft Suk-min Yoon every year hoping he signs, more power to him. Losing that pick every year should be a gamble he's allowed to take.

RedSox · Post by **RedSox** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:02 am

Reds · Post by **Reds** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:13 am

To change the rules after teams have dealt picks seems unfair.

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:53 am

Some people may have dealt up in hopes of getting Darvish

Reds · Post by **Reds** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:04 am

Cardinals wrote:Some people may have dealt up in hopes of getting Darvish

Perhaps, but the rule has been there. This thread is a reminder, not a change.

Phillies · Post by **Phillies** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:22 am

Should I take this Darvish guy?

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:15 am

IMO if a guy is posted before Christmas, he should be able to be drafted. If someone wants to roll the dice as to whether they sign or not that's his perrogative. But we know he's coming, why shouldn't he be in the draft. Then again I will be awful next year and if he ain't, it is more likely I get him

Reds · Post by **Reds** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:32 am

Then what about all the other declared players, the youngsters in the Dominican & Central America et al, and the defectors, and on and on.......

If the league wants to change the rule for next year lets look at it, but get it done before the draft picks are tradeable.

Yankees · Post by **Yankees** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:47 am

I think the signing rule is the easiest way to avoid any confusion, or lost picks. I don't necessarily think it's fair for the worst team in the league to get the #1 pick, take Darvish (not saying they will), but then losing out on him if he doesn't sign.

The idea of high picks is to increase team value, not create uncertainty. NBA teams draft a player, they know they've secured their rights - even if they don't play right away (hell, in Sabonis' case for a decade). In our version, since we do not allow them to own those rights, I don't think we need to create any level of uncertainty.

What's the worst that happens? The #1 pick still gets an elite arm (very good draft), and the whole league gets to see if Darvish is legit before we draft him next year. I think we do one of two things (sorry to add two more things).

1) If he's posted or signed, you get his rights in perpetuity. Meaning if someone takes Darvish this year, and he doesn't sign, is re-posted next year (or 3 years down the line), and signs - they keep the rights...but there has to be an effort to play in the US. Meaning, I can't just take the best non-posted player in the draft.
2) If he's not signed or posted by 12/31, he is not eligible until the 2013 IBC draft.

RedSox · Post by **RedSox** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:04 am

Ken is right in that 12/20 is too late to change a rule or make a new one.

The current rule on the rules page is this and it's really a three part process that needs to simplified after this year:

First part - Who is eligible to be drafted -
B. Player's subject to the draft will include any player who had not been part of an MLB organization before the start of the prior calendar year. (EXAMPLE: If a player had not been signed to a contract prior to 2006 then he is eligible for the IBC 2006 draft, which is held in January 2007).

Basically anyone who was not part of a MLB organization prior to 1/1/2011 is eligible for our draft. I could draft LeBron James.

Part two - Free Agency -
1. Following the completion of the IBC draft, any players who were drafted by or signed to a contract by an MLB team during the prior calendar year (in 2006 for the example above) or earlier may be signed as free agents.

After the draft is over anyone who signed with a MLB organization in 2011 is now a free agent.

The third part seems to be where most of the confusion lies. It's about what conditions need to be met to keep the people you've drafted:
2. A player will be returned to the draft pool for the next season under the following conditions. If the player was drafted by an MLB team and does not sign a new contract before the next MLB draft (the 2007 MLB draft in the example above). If the player is a Cuban defector or is from another professional league such as Japan, Korea or Mexico and does not sign a contract with an MLB team by opening day (Opening Day of the 2007 season in the example above). If the does not fall under one of these two categories, he must have signed a contract with an MLB team prior to January first of that year (prior to January 1st of 2007 in the example above).

This subsection is broken down into three parts -
A. A MLB drafted player who did not sign with his team returns to the draft pool.
B. Cuban, Japanese, Korean, Mexican professional players who don't sign with a MLB team before opening day return to the draft pool.
C. If a guy isn't one of the two above, he had to have signed a contract with a MLB organization before 1/1/2012 this year. If not then back in the pool. Basically 'C' covers all of the international signings involving players with no professional experience(DR, Venezuela, Colombia, Aruba, Germany, etc) and nutty draft picks like the LeBron James example.

The way it's set up now is a lot of having to police rosters after opening day. It's backwards in that we can draft anyone, then determiine his eligibilty later. I think the exec comm is trying to define who is available for the draft in black and white before the draft and I don't think it's possible without rewriting parts 1 & 3 into a new rule. It's too late in the year to change a rule for this draft so I'd ask what part of the rule as written are we being 'reminded' about because it isn't obvious to me.

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:34 pm

I actually believe Pat is correct and that we made an error in our last ExCo discussion.

Orioles · Post by **Orioles** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:45 pm

I agree that any rule change would have to be effective after this year's draft. Downside is we have to deal with the mildly sucky and probably slim chance Darvish signs after the draft begins. Given that Texas just dropped $51 mil to talk numbers, I gotta believe they'll get the guy under contract. Seems unlikely a team would pass on him because he's not signed.

We should change the rule so that as of a particular date there's a known and unchanging pool of draft-eligible players. If we want to include posted players in that pool, or take some other measure to include foreign signees, I'd be for something like that.

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:44 pm

I'll add my two cents for a change. *pause for laughter*

This is not the first time this has come up. It has come up previously in the past and the ExCo has dragged their feet in it. Obviously some GM's were operating under the impression that the Japanese/Cuban exemption was still valid. Which, since the ExCo never bothered to act on it when the topic came up before, it IS. Changing the rule and the draft pool less than a month before the draft starts is exactly the sort of shitty move that most of the members of the ExCo would have blasted me for previously.

You guys, the ExCo, dropped the ball on this. Own up to it, remove the exemption NOW for future drafts and move on.

Oh, and update the rest of the fucking rules too... it's been FOUR YEARS since I was Commish!!!

Draft Eligibility Reminder

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