CWS Roster

Rangers · Post by **Rangers** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:09 pm

Hey guys, just fyi Degen is still over the roster limit. He finished drafting the morning of the 30th, and I notified him last night that his roster had more than 40 non-7/8s (he hasn't yet opened the PM). Seth was the other, and he's made his cuts now. I think we just need to decide how long to give him before we cut guys to make his roster legal.

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:11 pm

Given that we made it pretty clear that the rosters had to be legal when we concluded drafting, I think we should make the cuts by no later than tomorrow. It's pretty inexcusable at this point, especially from an original member. He's had Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. For me it's more of a question of who we cut instead of when we cut.

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:52 pm

I agree with JP, he's had the time, he knew the rule and he isn't out of town as far as we know

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:15 am

Another day. We need to figure out who to cut. He needs two cuts, and I'd like to have it done today.

Padres · Post by **Padres** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:23 am

I suggest Matt Green and Hayden Penn

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:52 pm

I'm okay with that.

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:55 pm

Works for me

Padres · Post by **Padres** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:07 pm

Done ...

Dodgers · Post by **Dodgers** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:26 pm

After the fact, but I agree. Good work on handling this relatively quickly.

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:04 pm

I hate to bring this up, well I don't hate to actually since a few GM's have asked me about this, but at what point do we have to sit down and talk to Degen about his activity? It's sporadic at best. He's never heard from ever, is always extremely late (if even bothering) to respond to PM's and he definitely doesn't respond to mine. He had a week to cut two players for the draft roster and didn't do that, making him the only GM in the league we've ever had to make a cut for? Not sure if ever, but I think that may be true in recent history at least. It just seems like he's apathetic and doesn't care about his team, never has any direction and never really makes a legitimate attempt to be a winner.

He sent in 10 rosters this past year and none after August 4th. I'm not saying we should boot him ASAP or something per se, but I think he does need to shape up a bit and show a bit more interest in the league, especially with us having the strongest GM base we've ever had, he just seems like he's lapped in talent and interest. By a lot. What do you guys think? I think we should try to maybe gauge his interest in the league still? It just seems like he doesn't care, which sucks. Again, I'm not saying we need to get rid of him right now or whatever, but he literally does the bare, bare minimum.

Padres · Post by **Padres** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:19 pm

I must thread here lightly because of a preceived conflict of interest ... i.e., it is no secert that I would like to be the White Sox franchise in the IBC.

That being said, I do agree with JP's statement that Brett D is among the least active and appears to be the least knowledgable GM currently in the IBC. If trades could be vetoed for stupidity as a TRC member I likely would have done so to a few of his ... What will compound any evaluation of his "efforts" this season is the fact that it appears to be a race between him and Brandon as to who will tank the worst this season ...

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:52 pm

I know me and JP have talked about this a lot in the past year, and he brought it up last year when Bren was still in power, but Degan was given a free pass because he's an original member. Well that's great that he's an original member, but as those of us that have been around since the first year can attest, that was the last time he showed any interest or desire to make his team better. He's got to be the least knowledgeable GM we have, he never tries and when he makes trades they're awful 90% of the time. He doesn't respond to ims or PMs half the time, he does the bare minimum to stay active enough to not get booted. I think at this point, we owe it to the league to look for a replacement because he's just not cutting it with the talent level we currently have with our GMs.

I know we tend to give more leeway to guys that have been around since the beginning, but at what point is enough enough?

Dodgers · Post by **Dodgers** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:09 pm

I don't see how we can give him the boot immediately without an ultimatum, but I have no idea how we'd even give him an ultimatum. Make better trades? Post once a week? To say we're in a tough position is an understatement.

Nationals · Post by **Nationals** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:17 pm

I agree that Degan's commitment has been lacking at best. Have we ever talked with him about this? I'm all for one of us approaching him and asking what's up and informing him that there are a large number of GMs who are concerned about his level of involvement.

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:08 pm

Kick him in the ass once and if that don't get him in line, then get rid of him. Degan should've been gone 2 or 3 years ago. I can't ever recall a person we've gave an ultimatum to that didn't wind up quitting or being booted, with maybe the exception of Dan, so I don't see this turning out well for Degan any way you look at it

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:29 pm

Twins wrote:I agree that Degan's commitment has been lacking at best. Have we ever talked with him about this? I'm all for one of us approaching him and asking what's up and informing him that there are a large number of GMs who are concerned about his level of involvement.

I think this is best. Somebody should tell him that quite a few GM's have been curious as to what he does. Which isn't a whole lot, and when he does do something, it's typically not wise. He rarely, if ever, posts, isn't active in the free agent market, isn't looking for a young team - nobody knows what he wants. I think somebody should merely tell him, look, you're not really active, you don't have a clear vision for your team and your moves you make are questionable. Is this enjoyable for you? We don't want to see you leave really, but we do need to start seeing some more from you. More activity, better activity. I think it'd be good for us just to find out why- if he merely doesn't have the time for the league, that's okay, he doesn't have to cling onto it merely because he's an original member. It just doesn't seem like he's enjoying himself- but then again, I don't talk to him.

People like Martin and Brandon rarely, if ever, post, but you know they're around, they make their attempts, and they reply to PM's, and you usually know their motives for a given season. Degen just isn't anywhere in that mold. I'd suggest one of us PM or E-Mail him to lay it all on the line, and I'd do it myself- but he never responds to anything I send him, so that probably wouldn't help something like this if it came from me.

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:45 pm

He never responds to me either, ever since my interview a couple years ago where I said he should get the boot. So that eliminates me from contention.

I shared this analogy with JP and he wanted to me share it here since Degan's essentially been given a free pass because he's an original member.

Aaron Burr was a founding father, but when he tried to create his own empire in the Southwest, Thomas Jefferson didn't say "Awwww heck Aaron, that's okay, we'll let it slide, you've been here since the beginning." Well that's pretty much what we've done with Degan for 3 years now. Oh you just traded your best player for a pile of horse shit, that's okay, you've been here from day 1. No lineups for 2 months? You're an original, we'll let it slide. No more free ride

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:06 pm

I PMed Degan last night about this, with JP's help, and here is the response I got.

Hey Aaron,

Sorry if this turns into a novel....

I won't argue with your (the ExCo's) assessment of my team & activity level as it's all pretty valid. And I really don't blame you for calling me out on it either. In fact, starting during the second half of last season I've contemplated "retiring" from the IBC. In terms of priorities, it honestly keeps slipping down the list.

I'm well aware that my activity level is one of the lowest in the league. I barely post (though I do read the messageboards a ton while I'm at work), make only a handful of trades each year, and really only add/drop people when the projections first come out. I've lapsed on injuries once or twice and submit new line-ups like once a month.

The direction of my team also seems in limbo, and is for the most part. I think I have a nice core of guys to build around (Gonzalez, Baker, Volstad, etc) but there are still a bunch of missing pieces and really, just finishing in the middle of the pack in the AL Central would be an accomplishment this year.

I'm sure the one of the questionable trades is my recent Putz deal...he's 31, coming off an injury-riddled year, and won't be closing games for the Mets this year - I just don't think he's going to be the same guy he was the last fews years before he got hurt. Hanrahan put up decent numbers in the closers role, and I think Coghlan should turn out nicely and could supplant Iwamura in my line-up in another year or so. That was basically my reasoning for the deal - a year ago Putz would've been almost untouchable.

At any rate, I do still very much enjoy the league. However, I am aware that some of what I've said above may be cause for concern for you guys. That being said, if after the ExCo discusses my response you think that the White Sox and the IBC would be better served with a more active GM then let me know and I'll step down. I won't lie - it'll suck, but there won't be any hard feelings. If that does come to pass, I just ask that I can make a quick farwell post and I'll be on my way.

Dodgers · Post by **Dodgers** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:24 pm

Does anyone have a capable GM at the ready? Otherwise, I say we spend the rest of the offseason looking for someone and when we find them orchestrate a switchover.

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:32 pm

I'd think that we'd like to get everybody involved in finding a GM, just so we don't keep going to the same wells, which have been Jag, Jake and myself lately. No offense to Kelly or anything, but I'd like somebody a little better than him if we're going to be having a new GM coming over. I think it would be better not to just tell a few GMs to quietly look for a new GM or something, unless one of you guys has somebody at the ready to go, which I know I don't, doesn't sound like Shawn does and I don't think Aaron does.

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:35 pm

Also, do we keep him or send him? I didn't address that and that's probably the biggest part. He admits to basically wanting to quit and not really having the time and being hardly ever active and doesn't look like he says that's going to change or anything. It's a very nice reply, meaning it's nice of him to own up and be honest, which makes it a little more difficult, but it really does seem like he has no qualms with exiting.

Dodgers · Post by **Dodgers** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:42 pm

Replacing him does raise the question of whether or not we should allow him to continue running his team, especially with his most recent trades. Our choices would either be to pretend that he was going to continue so that he doesn't start a firesale, which seems like kind of a dick move to lead him on, or to have him leave gracefully now on his own terms (perhaps we can make it his choice somehow?) and bring in a GM sometime during the offseason. Since the draft is over, really there's no immediate need to have a replacement, just before the season.

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:51 pm

I would say go ahead and usher him out, let him leave his farewell message and ask members to recommend people. I don't have anyone to recommend at the moment, my well went dry after JP and Gabe

Padres · Post by **Padres** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:35 pm

I should put it out there so we discuss it ... first, I think regardless of my desire to move my roster to the Cell (though I understand it is built for more of a pitchers' park like Shea was and Citi Field will be), it is time to replace Brett D in the IBC.

Second, will his replacement be handling the CWS roster in the Cell or in the Citi - or even in Coors? I understand if the ExCo is reluctant to allow me [as a member of ExCo involved in this decision] to move at this point in time because of the perception of a conflict of interest ... On the other hand if the situation were that the ExCo announced Brett was leaving and asked the league to assist in finding a new GM I could guarantee you that I would then ask to move to the Cell and John Anderson, aka, Mr. Met, would probably ask to move to Citi which would possibly have your new GM managing the current CWS roster in Coors ....

Rangers · Post by **Rangers** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:53 pm

Taking over Degen's roster in Coors wouldn't be very attractive, but probably my biggest concern in that scenario would be the downgrade of team from Jim's to John's in what doesn't otherwise look like a particularly healthy division moving forward. I guess it's still the same league at least, but a consideration of a good team in the NLC swapping with a so-so on in the NLE might be a good thing, if there is a pair of willing GMs. I'd just like to avoid another AL West.