IBC

Nick used Koji Uehara extensively in the NLDS and NLCS.

Against Bren:

4 G, 4IP, 5 H, 1 ER, 1 BB, 9 K, 1-0 record
3 G, 5.1 IP, 3 H, 1 ER, 2 BB, 9K, 1 SV (Game 7) against me

Nick has already offered to replay the NLDS and NLCS.

What should we do?

I will not vote.

Both of those series could've very well turned out differently without Koji. I say we replay them

An ineligible player was used. Therefore, the games should be replayed.

Dodgers wrote:An ineligible player was used ...

Exactly when did he become ineligible in the IBC universe. I am not agreeing that he was not hurt but as when did he become ineligible? He was "hurt" on September 16 when he was "day-to-day" [largely because the rosters had expanded he was put on a DL]:

Koji Uehara is unavailable for the Cubs on Saturday.

The veteran right-hander has been battling problems with his back and with his right knee. He's considered day-to-day.

http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/mlb/4100/koji-uehara

The very day a worse update was posted:

Koji Uehara admitted Sunday that he "can't throw" due to back tightness.

Uehara has also dealt with a right knee issue recently and hasn't pitched since September 2. The Cubs haven't officially ruled the veteran reliever out for the rest of the season, but things are trending that way. Uehara posted a 2.73 ERA in the first half but holds a 6.75 ERA since the All-Star break, as injuries have caught up to the 42-year-old.

http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/mlb/4100/koji-uehara

I don't think the real life Cubs are going to advance but Uehara apparently does:

Uehara left off Cubs’ NLCS roster

LOS ANGELES — Right-hander Koji Uehara did not make the cut as the Chicago Cubs on Saturday announced their 25-man roster ahead of the National League Championship Series against the Los Angeles Dodgers starting the same day.

Uehara, who is making his way back from back pain that had seen him sidelined him since last month, was also not on the roster for National League Divisional Series playoff against the Washington Nationals.

However, he has declared himself fit to pitch in the postseason after rejoining the Cubs for practice ahead of last Monday’s Game 3 of their NLDS playoff against the Nationals. My emphasis

Playing his ninth season in the major leagues, Uehara has made 49 regular season appearances this year.

His last mound appearance was on Sept. 2, when he got two outs in the seventh inning of the Cubs’ 14-12 win over the Atlanta Braves.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/201 ... efi0-SWzx8

Yes, that was written on 10/15 ... Was Uehara like Rondon (and later Wilson), who was certainly considered healthy by our standards, left off the real life Cubs post season roster due to poor performance in the second portion of the season (in Wilson's case coupled with poor NLDS performance)? Health? Health and performance?

We have known we are engaged in a slippery slope when it comes to late season and increasingly postseason injury designations when there is no formal designation. We are often dealing with reports by third parties.

Nothing changed, that I am aware of, since Uehara pitched his last game on September 2 and when he did not make the NLDS roster on October 6. (I found a report of him throwing a simulated game on September 13 with no real indication of how it went except for the two indirect references noted above that Uehara was definitely not improving.) Yet I am sure he pitched in the IBC the whole month of September ... when exactly did he become ineligible?

Why is it important when he became ineligible in the IBC? Because it makes me question if we are even voting on the correct issue in the current Poll:

Current injury rule?

MLB playoff injuries count and you must be on postseason roster to play
MLB playoff injuries do not count, and injuries stop after Game 162

Uehara clearly did not suffer a "playoff injury" ...

*** All this being said I applaud Nick for his willingness to replay the playoff games without Uehara. It sure the hell doesn't look like Nick broke any rules. If I had had an opportunity to opine an opinion prior to games being played and had reviewed the situation as much as I have since I came home from work this evening, I would indicated that I think he is not pitching for the real life Cubs in the NLDS and the NLCS because of health and performance concerns and health should be enough reason that he not be IBC eligible for the playoffs.

So my answer to my question above is he became ineligible October 6 but I don't believe our poll addresses that.

This last week has convinced me that IBC playoff rosters probably need to be published 24 hours prior to start of a playoff series so they can be reviewed for issues of eligibility But I am not sure we will catch situations like this even then. Christ, these box scores were published and distributed and tonight is the first I am hearing of this.

In my case I do not look at the playoff boxes very closely until some slow snowy day post-Christmas when the LEGO rush is over and I settle down with a chilled craft beer to relax and relive ... when I get in the playoffs again I will pay closer attention to the immediate boxes but now I tend to track the trends and save the drilling down for later.

WhiteSox wrote:If I had had an opportunity to opine an opinion prior to games being played and had reviewed the situation as much as I have since I came home from work this evening, I would indicated that I think he is not pitching for the real life Cubs in the NLDS and the NLCS because of health and performance concerns and health should be enough reason that he not be IBC eligible for the playoffs.

To me, this is all that matters and the "penalty" would be applied after it's been determined that an ineligible player has been used. If this had been raised before the postseason started, I would have voted that he is out for the playoffs. I think the onus was on Nick to police his own roster and confirm eligibility (or lack thereof) in this case.

To me, there's no difference for whether rules apply, whether it is discovered before or after a series, just the fallout is different (replayed vs played originally without the player).

[quote="Dodgers"]
What would happen during the regular season? The player would be deactivated, correct? We rarely DL guys beyond two weeks for violations as the rules suggest. I understand the playoffs are different in significance than the regular season, but when has the league ever replayed the results of games based on injury?

Actually if you discover an injury during the regular season before you submit the file to JP you can replay it. I remember that happened to me in 2008. I think it was against, oh shit I can't remember his name, I'm still facebook friends with the guy, he was the Pirates then. We played a series and didn't realize until after that his catcher had been put on the DL so we replayed the series. Replaying that series is what resulted in me tying Brandon for the WC and getting in the playoffs

Tigers wrote: What would happen during the regular season? The player would be deactivated, correct? We rarely DL guys beyond two weeks for violations as the rules suggest. I understand the playoffs are different in significance than the regular season, but when has the league ever replayed the results of games based on injury?

During the regular season, we would deactivate the player and they would get a DL penalty, because that’s what the rule is. We instituted that rule so that we would not have to go back and resim games (which we used to do, but it’s a giant pain in DMB when you’re also simming unaffected games). *However*, I think I got ahead of where we should actually be when I included that line. Ultimately, we need to decide what happens when an ineligible player is used in a postseason game.

Tigers wrote: In discussing with Sander, he suggested that if you're playing H2H, you're essentially taking a risk that the other team's roster is good. You get to see your opponent's roster, therefore you're waiving your right to contest the legality of their roster after you play. Similar to calling for replay in pro sports. Once the next pitch is thrown/next ball is hiked, it's over. But I do like Jim's idea that rosters are submitted in advance and we can research ourselves, if needed. And we can also rule that h2h must wait until playoff rosters are submitted.

I disagree that by agreeing to play H2H you take on that risk. If I’m playing you, it’s not my job to know whether all of your players are active, it’s your job. If you fail to do that in the regular season, you get a DL violation, regardless of whether the game was simmed or H2H. Why would that responsibility shift to me in the postseason?

Tigers wrote: I don't see myself voting to replay/resim games after results are in. I don't like the idea of the league never knowing whether the results of games will stand or not or if my 1-game division lead is going to disappear in late September because my second loogy was actually hurt and therefore that 0.1 IP he threw nullifies that win and the re-sim resulted in a loss.

Well, I don’t like the idea either, but I don’t really see a different fair option. We have the ability to reset the situation to before when the violation happened and go from there, why would we not do that?

Tigers wrote: And if we're instituting replay/re-sim in October, are we doing it all year long, for every instance of injury issue? There were 8 individual posts on the injury board for players playing while on the DL...I didn't go through each injury post. And that's only those that were caught and pointed out. It feels like we're making huge decisions in a vacuum here.

No, because we have a DL violation system in place to offset the benefit you might get from failing to DL someone. However, that doesn’t apply well in the playoffs because a violation is irrelevant if you’re eliminated or the player doesn’t return.

Pat, why'd you heavily modify your post? Pretty much everything Shawn quoted is now missing.

I didn't modify anything. I haven't been on this thread since I posted...

I tried to quote Pat's post and I guess instead of it posting as a big quote it had me modify Pat's quote? It makes no sense but if you read Pat's post, it is him talking about playing Brandon in 2008 and I specifically wrote that last night. Somehow the board messed up and when I went to quote Pat in a reply actually had me modify his post. Don't ask me how, also I was drunk last night, but that is what happened because I recall typing what is now Pat's post

Cardinals wrote:I tried to quote Pat's post and I guess instead of it posting as a big quote it had me modify Pat's quote? It makes no sense but if you read Pat's post, it is him talking about playing Brandon in 2008 and I specifically wrote that last night. Somehow the board messed up and when I went to quote Pat in a reply actually had me modify his post. Don't ask me how, also I was drunk last night, but that is what happened because I recall typing what is now Pat's post

What happened was you hit Edit instead of Quote (they’re next to each other). I’ve removed your ability to Edit

[quote="WhiteSox... All this being said I applaud Nick for his willingness to replay the playoff games without Uehara. It sure the hell doesn't look like Nick broke any rules. If I had had an opportunity to opine an opinion prior to games being played and had reviewed the situation as much as I have since I came home from work this evening, I would indicated that I think he is not pitching for the real life Cubs in the NLDS and the NLCS because of health and performance concerns and health should be enough reason that he not be IBC eligible for the playoffs.

So my answer to my question above is he became ineligible October 6 but I don't believe our poll addresses that. ...[/quote]

It appears I never came out and specifically said I think Nick has to replay his series without Uehara so I am stating that now.