Trades

[Yankees]

I'm going to use this forum to rip everyone a new one on trades - and ones that matter - here we go, burning bridges:

Rockies trade<br>
Adam 6-Cowart, Miguel Batista, Akinori Otsuka, Fernando Rodney, , , , <br>to Indians for<br>
Jose 0-Ceda, John Maine, Oswaldo Sosa, , , , ,

So a team attempting to get younger and better is getting an indistinguished 30 year old reliever, a 35 year old reliever who is trying to throw through a broken arm, a 36 year old starter who may have had 16 wins but also had a 1.52 whip, and a 2nd tier minor league pitcher who's been old for his league and done well.

In turn, he is sending a 26 year old 15 game winner with a 1.27 whip last year (and 180k's in 191 ip's!!!), a 20 year old minor leaguer who had a .099 baa (!!!!!!!) at 2 levels, and then a pitcher who had a 2.94 era as HA/AA with ok peripherals but young for the league.

Other then that, this trade is right in this thing...

[Padres]

So a team attempting to get younger and better is getting ... a 35 year old reliever who is trying to throw through a broken arm ...

Perhaps the worst is over for Akinori Otsuka.

Upon arriving at the baseball general manager's meetings Monday, Texas Rangers GM Jon Daniels said Otsuka has resumed throwing for the first time in nearly two months. Otsuka, who did not pitch after July 1, started throwing last week and has not had any problems with several sessions.

"It's been encouraging," Daniels said. "Everything has been going well. Really, since mid-September, it's all been positive. It was just so late in the season that we wanted to be extra cautious."

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent ... 1dbbc.html

Maybe the Indians found themselves a closer for 2008 ...

Three year (2005-2007)
Overall ..... ERA W L SV SVO G GS CG IP H R ER HR BB SO AVG
Total .........2.79 6 13 37 50 163 0 0 154.2 134 55 48 6 54 130 .233
As Reliever 2.79 6 13 37 50 163 0 0 154.2 134 55 48 6 54 130 .233

No doubt it was a risky trade ... probably will not be his last ... or the league's last.

[Yankees]

So at a GM's meeting where he's probably trying to move Otsuka, the GM of the team he's pitching for says he's throwing well. Wow, groundbreaking strategy by a GM here, hope it pays off.

[Tigers]

The real truth will be known when we see what kind of contract offer the Rangers make to Otsuka.

GM speak this time of year is nothing more than propaganda.

[Mets]

might as well add this one to the list that I made last summer:

Rockies Colby 5-Rasmus of Traded to Nationals Sep 1, 8:48 am
Rockies James Shields SP Traded to Nationals Sep 1, 8:48 am
Nationals Edward Mujica MR Traded to Rockies Sep 1, 8:48 am
Nationals Scott Moore 3B Traded to Rockies Sep 1, 8:48 am
Nationals Brian Giles LF Traded to Rockies Sep 1, 8:48 am

Stats can be spun however you want. In the end, because of the amount of transactions teams make on a yearly basis, whatever gets your teams a few more wins at the time is what makes the most sense for GM's.

Giles didn't help my team that much, but it did help me land Jason Bay. Otsuka could help land a good player to a contender needing RP at the deadline, and the whole thing is a moot point.

[Guardians]

Everyone has an opinion on the value of a player. There are 30 different opinions in the IBC for every player in the league. In my opinion, unless a deal looks lopsided due to some sort of unethical move, then I persoanlly feel that ALL trades should be accepted. I'm not a fan of the trade review process. I realize that the trade review process is in place to ensure the integrity of the league, but let me ask a couple of questions here....1) if any star player were involved in a trade, and then his career tragically ended for whatever reason the following week, would the trade be reversed to ensure league integrity??...2) if we wanted to truly ensure league integrity, why not simply implement player contracts, instead of the "lifetime" contracts that are in place now?? 3) the trade above is a fine example of current vs. future worth....the above trade goes further towards tipping league "balance" than the deal for John Maine that we are currently discussing. Unless someone can see the value of Rodney, Otsuka, etc a year from now, I just don't understand how a trade can be vetoed.

Just my 2 cents...

[Orioles]

After 3 years or so in this league, I see two reasons why it's hard to argue that any relief pitcher has as much value as a good young SP, no matter how much individual opinions differ...

1. As anyone who entered as a "newbie" or minidrafted at some point can tell you, if you don't have any decent SP, it's extremely difficult to acquire any. I admittedly trade less than most, but I gave up on trading for quality SP early and just waited for my draftees and signees to develop. Additionally, the most common theme among new GMs who don't have success, and subsequently don't last very long, is that they moved most or all of their good SP and SP prospects early on (even for fair-ish value) and had no chance after that.

2. The availability of Jason Andersons, Scott Dunns, etc. and other RP with good enough projections that they can be effective situational relievers every year devalues all but the truly elite SP. If you look hard enough at the end of the year, and comb through the projections when they come out, you can almost always build a passable pen. The gap between those guys and good, established RP is small enough that it's not worth overpaying for anybody but a truly elite closer (and some would probably disagree that even the top guys are that much better that one might overpay to acquire one). On top of that, most RP don't remain at their peak effectiveness for more than a handful of years, and are much more likely to end up having almost no value at all after they've dropped off than most SP would.

[Orioles]

#2 should say:

be effective situational relievers every year devalues all but the truly elite RP

[Guardians]

In addition to what i posted previously, even though I don't agree with trades being vetoed, I certainly would take Maine in that situation 1000 times over. You don't have to argue to me that SP's are much more valueable than relievers. I personally think the trade was even more lopsided AFTER they restructured the deal....but again, I would vote to allow it.

[Giants]

Your #1 hypothetical actually did happen in this league, as Darryl Kile was traded a week before his death. The fact is that in this league starters are hugely overvalued and players over 30 (and especially over 35) are hugely undervalued. If Kelly tries to move Otsuka at the break he'll find a glut of relievers on the market that will drive down the asking price, and it will be harder than he thinks to pry away a useful prospect.

[Yankees]

Twins trade<br>
Josh Fields, Ryan Howard, , , , , , <br>to Nationals for<br>
Jeff Francis, Adam LaRoche, , , , , ,

Holy. Moly. The other AL Central teams are dancing a jig today, as, ding dong, Ryan Howard's gone. Jeff Francis is an outstanding starter whose value has been driven up by the post-season - but I'm just not sure he and LaRoche are worth Howard alone, much less adding a very good young 3b as well.

As much as left-handed hitters are fearing having to face Francis, every pitcher is breathing a huge sigh of relief today.

[Orioles]

I kinda agree with you Z on Francis. He's a nice young pitcher, but he doesn't really have an out pitch, a weakness the Red Sox exploited in the WS by getting him into hitters counts and teeing off on the fastball. If the quality of the opposing hitters in the NLW improves (which it will as the DBacks kids get older), we might see his ERA remain consistently around the 4.22 he posted this year, rather than continue to improve as he enters his prime. If you look at his numbers by month, he had two excellent months (May/June - 2.23/2.84 ERA) and 4 mediocre to bad months (April/July/August/September - 6.52/6.16/4.04/4.78 ERA). I guess this is more about me not being on the Jeff Francis bandwagon more than about this actual trade, but Howard's a monster, and Fields had some stretches last year where it seemed like he hit one out every day. He's got slugging All-Star 3B written all over him.

[Nationals]

Holy. Moly. The other AL Central teams are dancing a jig today, as, ding dong, Ryan Howard's gone. Jeff Francis is an outstanding starter whose value has been driven up by the post-season - but I'm just not sure he and LaRoche are worth Howard alone, much less adding a very good young 3b as well.

As much as left-handed hitters are fearing having to face Francis, every pitcher is breathing a huge sigh of relief today.

I do this only out of the charity of my heart to help y'all out...

Yeah right. My lineup always was able to mash. It still is. I reckon Kemp/Peralta/LaRoche to all be 30-homerun bats with a good number of other guys slugging 20+. Minnesota's not going to be hurting for power. However, one thing that I am trying to do is to cut down on strikeouts--those, more than anything, hurt me against Aaron. I'm not saying that I dealt Howard primarily because of his prodigious abilities to both hit the ball a long way while whiffing every third at bat, but it contributed. A bigger factor was this whole Andy Pettitte business. I did not want to get left out in the cold, should he decide to retire (which I have a feeling he won't...giving me a stellar rotation). It hurts to lose Fields, but that was the way the business came down. I agree that Ken probably came out on top with this deal, but in the long run I'm liking the way my team is shaping up.

[Yankees]

Andrew - this was absolutely no shot at your GM skills. You've whipped me the last two years, and I've always enjoyed trading with you because we both share the same outlook on trades - you don't have to win them to improve your team.

If you're convined you've got a better team off this, then consider me scared shitless...

[Orioles]

Holy. Moly. The other AL Central teams are dancing a jig today, as, ding dong, Ryan Howard's gone. Jeff Francis is an outstanding starter whose value has been driven up by the post-season - but I'm just not sure he and LaRoche are worth Howard alone, much less adding a very good young 3b as well.

As much as left-handed hitters are fearing having to face Francis, every pitcher is breathing a huge sigh of relief today.

I do this only out of the charity of my heart to help y'all out...

Yeah right. My lineup always was able to mash. It still is. I reckon Kemp/Peralta/LaRoche to all be 30-homerun bats with a good number of other guys slugging 20+. Minnesota's not going to be hurting for power. However, one thing that I am trying to do is to cut down on strikeouts--those, more than anything, hurt me against Aaron. I'm not saying that I dealt Howard primarily because of his prodigious abilities to both hit the ball a long way while whiffing every third at bat, but it contributed. A bigger factor was this whole Andy Pettitte business. I did not want to get left out in the cold, should he decide to retire (which I have a feeling he won't...giving me a stellar rotation). It hurts to lose Fields, but that was the way the business came down. I agree that Ken probably came out on top with this deal, but in the long run I'm liking the way my team is shaping up.

Agree that the K's are a legitimate concern. I was all ready to make a solid Ortiz for Howard offer until I saw the 199 Ks this year (to Papi's 103). Whhiiiifffff. That .260 average looks about right unless he learns to cut down on the hacks.

[Reds]

I think we both get what we need out of this deal. My team was in need of power and was able to get one premier power hitter and one potentially very good one depending on how the projections come out. The fact that Fields plays both 3B and OF will allow me some flexibility just in case Crede doesn't project well (which he should, but you never know). The deal also brings me closer to one of my other goals, which is to lead the world on K's because both Fields and Howard are proficient in that area, maybe I should try to acquire Adam Dunn to lock that up.

[Nationals]

I think we both get what we need out of this deal. My team was in need of power and was able to get one premier power hitter and one potentially very good one depending on how the projections come out. The fact that Fields plays both 3B and OF will allow me some flexibility just in case Crede doesn't project well (which he should, but you never know). The deal also brings me closer to one of my other goals, which is to lead the world on K's because both Fields and Howard are proficient in that area, maybe I should try to acquire Adam Dunn to lock that up.

Well I lead the IBC in Ks last season and look what that got me...

And Z, I realize that you meant nothing against me with your commentary...I'm just exploring a new pitching-based direction that also emphasizes guys who make contact (hell, between Kemp and Peralta, I should have more than enough Ks!)

[Yankees]

Indians trade<br>
Eric Byrnes, Charles Lofgren, , , , , , <br>to Brewers for<br>
Casey Blake, Johnny Cueto, Jason Giambi, Livan Hernandez, , , ,

This league TOTALLY confuses me sometimes. I have no idea what the Brewers were thinking here. I'd love an explanation. Is Eric Byrnes really THAT good? He's pretty good - but is he worth Blake, Cueto, Giambi, and Livan? Cueto is pretty nasty - and I really don't know how good Lofgren is.

I don't know - I guess this deal just confuses me. Nicely done Indians.

[Pirates]

we're trying to get all the oldies out of milwaukee....cueto may be better than lofgren, but byrnes is a big pickup for me. He will have a descent sim and fill a big CF hold that I had. I was also without a lefty in the starting rotation. I was trying to get all the value i could out of 3 guys who are over 35.

[Yankees]

I'm not sure packaging them with a top flight pitching prospect to get a 31 year old cf with a history of inconsistency and a B-level talent who had a +4.00 era at AA is where I'd go.

[Guardians]

I don't have that much faith in Cueto....he may end up as a #3, which is still very good, but he is overhyped.

Byrnes plays a good all around game...hence the nice contract he received from Arizona. Giambi is THROUGH.

I see this deal as being pretty even, with alot of variables that could go extremely well or extremely bad on both sides.

Good trade for BOTH teams.

[Mets]

Exactly why you can't judge a GM based off one trade.

Indians got bashed for his first deal, and praised for his second.

In the end, he'll have a quality product on the field, and that's really what counts in my eyes.

[Angels]

I'm going to use this forum to rip everyone a new one on trades - and ones that matter - here we go, burning bridges:

Rockies trade<br>
Adam 6-Cowart, Miguel Batista, Akinori Otsuka, Fernando Rodney, , , , <br>to Indians for<br>
Jose 0-Ceda, John Maine, Oswaldo Sosa, , , , ,

So a team attempting to get younger and better is getting an indistinguished 30 year old reliever, a 35 year old reliever who is trying to throw through a broken arm, a 36 year old starter who may have had 16 wins but also had a 1.52 whip, and a 2nd tier minor league pitcher who's been old for his league and done well.

In turn, he is sending a 26 year old 15 game winner with a 1.27 whip last year (and 180k's in 191 ip's!!!), a 20 year old minor leaguer who had a .099 baa (!!!!!!!) at 2 levels, and then a pitcher who had a 2.94 era as HA/AA with ok peripherals but young for the league.

Other then that, this trade is right in this thing...

I have never said in any league I'm trying to get younger, not sure where you got that impression. Look at my three trades here - I got Jeff Kent for Geovani Soto, then acquired Batista and Otsuka, then acquired Livan, Giambi and Blake. I always play for now in any SIM/roto/fantasy league I'm in.

[Guardians]

Is Kent gonna retire?

[Orioles]

Is Kent gonna retire?

No man with a mustache like that retires after the season he just had. Why would he retire? He was one of the top 5 2B in baseball this year offensively. (.302/.375/.500 w/ 20 HR in 136 games)