Baseball in Montreal

BlueJays · Post by **BlueJays** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:08 pm

So I'm sure everybody knows that the Mets and Blue Jays are playing a couple games in Montreal to finish off ST. Tonight they'll be honoring Gary Carter, and doing so in Montreal with the Mets present seems quite fitting.

I guess a lot of us are too young to really remember the 1994 season when the Expos were actually good. When I think of the Expos, I think of the years of Vlad throwing bullets from right field, and that one year when they actually were buyers and gave the Indians Cliff Lee, Grady Sizemore and Brandon Phillips for a fat, but slightly thinner than now Bartolo Colon. I also think of a super ugly Olympic Stadium with 12 fans in the seats.

But then I traveled to Montreal a few years back, and I have to say, it's a pretty sweet city. I also saw a lot of Expos gear there, even though the team hasn't existed since 2004. Maybe it's just because people like the toothpaste hat, but maybe a part of it is the people there really do like baseball and miss the Expos.

So does baseball belong in Montreal?

The Expos were a victim of bad timing and terrible ownership. They built up success in the 80's behind the likes of Gary Carter, Andre Dawson and Tim Raines, and this transitioned into the 90's with guys like Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, Larry Walker, Moises Alou, Rondell White, Marquis Grissom, and Vladimir Guerrero. They were favorites to win the Wold Series in 1994, but the strike ended their hopes, and sent the franchise into a spiral over the next 10 years until they reached their demise. All of baseball suffered after 1994, and the Expos probably suffered the most. While other teams were working to leave their ugly multi-purpose cookie cutter stadiums, the 1994 strike killed all momentum Expos ownership had in building a new baseball specific stadium. Ownership pulled out investing in the team and traded off all their top talent and allowed free agents, such as Larry Walker, leave without offering arbitration. Soon they sold off the team to Jeff Loria, the biggest asshole ever to get involved in Major League Baseball.

Loria quickly spruced up his team with some expensive contracts in an attempt to convince the city of Montreal to finance a new park with public funding (sound familiar?). This failed, because apparently the city of Montreal is less stupid than Miami. Loria managed to get attendance down under 10,000 per game and MLB voted to contract the Expos and Twins (which would have come with huge buy-outs to respective ownship), but the Twins escaped this fate with some stadium rights bullshit, so MLB was forced to keep both teams in existence. MLB gave Loria a huge buy-out anyway and then let him go to Florida to disgrace baseball some more.

In all, labor unions and Jeff Loria ruined baseball in Montreal. Without one or the other, chances are there's an MLB team in Montreal today. Hey, the A's have been looking for a new home. Montreal Athletics? Or rather, the Montréal Athlétisme?

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:10 pm

I'd love to see baseball in Montreal. I'm like you, I don't really remember anything about the Expos except empty stadiums, but in watching old stuff on MLB Network the past couple of years, when the Expos were good the place was packed and the people loved baseball. They got screwed by the strike and then allowing Loria to buy and rape the team. I remember one year they didn't call up anyone in September because it would've meant spending a little extra money. I think baseball could thrive in Montreal.

While we're on the topic, I think Nashville is another logical place to the MLB to extend to. It is the fastest growing city in one of the fastest growing states. There's no real nearby baseball, and it could also pull people in from surrounding areas like Bowling Green, Chattanooga, and Louisville (lets face it, if I can drive 2 hours to go to a dump of a city like Cincinnati, or drive another hour and spend a day in Nashville, the choice is obvious).

I think relocating the Rays to either city would be a good idea. Baseball is never going to work in Tampa and I don't buy the shitty stadium argument because that is what the Marlins trotted out for 20 years as their excuse and a new stadium didn't do shit. Moving them to either city allows them to stay in the AL East. Either way they have to get out of Tampa, get in a place where people will actually go to the games and then be able to have a real payroll for the first time

Brewers · Post by **Brewers** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:46 pm

I honestly wished I had known about this earlier. I'm less than 3 hours from Montreal. Given the fact that there is still 3 feet of snow on the ground I would have definitely made the trip.

Tigers · Post by **Tigers** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:08 pm

Cardinals wrote:I'd love to see baseball in Montreal. I'm like you, I don't really remember anything about the Expos except empty stadiums, but in watching old stuff on MLB Network the past couple of years, when the Expos were good the place was packed and the people loved baseball. They got screwed by the strike and then allowing Loria to buy and rape the team. I remember one year they didn't call up anyone in September because it would've meant spending a little extra money. I think baseball could thrive in Montreal.

While we're on the topic, I think Nashville is another logical place to the MLB to extend to. It is the fastest growing city in one of the fastest growing states. There's no real nearby baseball, and it could also pull people in from surrounding areas like Bowling Green, Chattanooga, and Louisville (lets face it, if I can drive 2 hours to go to a dump of a city like Cincinnati, or drive another hour and spend a day in Nashville, the choice is obvious).

I think relocating the Rays to either city would be a good idea. Baseball is never going to work in Tampa and I don't buy the shitty stadium argument because that is what the Marlins trotted out for 20 years as their excuse and a new stadium didn't do shit. Moving them to either city allows them to stay in the AL East. Either way they have to get out of Tampa, get in a place where people will actually go to the games and then be able to have a real payroll for the first time

I'm going to Nashville in May.....I'll check it out and see what I think about it supporting baseball. All them country bumpkins around there!

It will be my first time to Nashville. I'm looking forward to it. Getting in a day early so I can see a bit of the city.

I've got a buddy that owns a restaurant in Bowling Green pretty close to the campus. Suppose to be a decent place.

Getting the Rays out of Tampa does seem like it should be a priority for MLB. I don't have much faith in them figuring that out though.

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:53 pm

Mariners wrote:
Getting the Rays out of Tampa does seem like it should be a priority for MLB. I don't have much faith in them figuring that out though.

Maybe the new commish next year will help with that.

Guardians · Post by **Guardians** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:11 pm

The Rays need out of Tampa, but I don't know that Montreal is the answer. The Rays stadium is b.s. Their stadium absolutely blows and it's in St. Petersburg and not Tampa (across the bay), which causes traffic issues, but it's a manufactured excuse for shit fans. They are a great team and I'd like them if I didn't like the Sox.

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:46 pm

Tigers wrote:The Rays need out of Tampa, but I don't know that Montreal is the answer. The Rays stadium is b.s. Their stadium absolutely blows and it's in St. Petersburg and not Tampa (across the bay), which causes traffic issues, but it's a manufactured excuse for shit fans. They are a great team and I'd like them if I didn't like the Sox.

May be true, but it would be kind of cool to move them to Montreal in the AL East. Play the Jays 18 times a year, and closer to NY/BOS/BAL.

Guardians · Post by **Guardians** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:03 pm

Pirates wrote:
Tigers wrote:The Rays need out of Tampa, but I don't know that Montreal is the answer. The Rays stadium is b.s. Their stadium absolutely blows and it's in St. Petersburg and not Tampa (across the bay), which causes traffic issues, but it's a manufactured excuse for shit fans. They are a great team and I'd like them if I didn't like the Sox.
May be true, but it would be kind of cool to move them to Montreal in the AL East. Play the Jays 18 times a year, and closer to NY/BOS/BAL.

Would be, but that experiment has already happened. Are there examples of franchises leaving cities and coming back? I don't know of that happening...

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:58 pm

Tigers wrote:
Pirates wrote:
Tigers wrote:The Rays need out of Tampa, but I don't know that Montreal is the answer. The Rays stadium is b.s. Their stadium absolutely blows and it's in St. Petersburg and not Tampa (across the bay), which causes traffic issues, but it's a manufactured excuse for shit fans. They are a great team and I'd like them if I didn't like the Sox.
May be true, but it would be kind of cool to move them to Montreal in the AL East. Play the Jays 18 times a year, and closer to NY/BOS/BAL.
Would be, but that experiment has already happened. Are there examples of franchises leaving cities and coming back? I don't know of that happening...

Milwaukee had a brief period of time without the Brewers, when the Braves moved to Atlanta, then Seattle lost the Pilots when the Pilots went to Milwaukee before they got the Mariners. And then Washington DC, too.

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:38 pm

Yeah, there were 2 versions of the Senators, the one that became the Twins and the one that became the Rangers, and baseball is thriving in DC. Throw Seattle in there too, they had the Pilots for a season then got the M's eventually. You get a stadium in Montreal that is baseball specific with good ownership and those people will support it. Florida will never support baseball, they get their baseball fix in spring training, plus Florida fans suck for pro sports

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:34 pm

Baseball will never return to Montreal, and this is the case for one simple reason. Montreal will never build a publicly financed baseball stadium and none of the megarich billionaire investor groups would ever spend their own money on a Montreal baseball stadium. There's also the question of demand. I've never come across any public outcry by the people of Montreal for a team. Maybe it's there, but I see and hear more comments about bringing a team to Las Vegas or Portland Oregon than to Montreal.

BlueJays · Post by **BlueJays** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:41 pm

LV and Portland are just far too small of markets to support a MLB team.

I don't think MLB would look to expand in the future, at least I hope they don't. There's too many teams already IMO. And I'm not sure if any team will be moved. Maybe the A's head to San Jose, maybe the Rays move to Tampa from St. Pete (went to Tampa last year, that stadium isn't located well), but I don't see either leaving their respective states. My understanding is the Rays get away with having a shitty stadium with no fans because if MLB tried to move them, the state of Florida would sue MLB for anti-trust.

MLB probably won't ever return to Montreal, but it's fun to think about. I think it's a great city and it's a huge market that could do well with a team if done correctly.

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:47 pm

Orioles wrote:LV and Portland are just far too small of markets to support a MLB team.

I agree. There's also Vegas' gambling problem. But those areas at least want a team, Montreal doesn't.

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:25 pm

Padres wrote:
Orioles wrote:LV and Portland are just far too small of markets to support a MLB team.
I agree. There's also Vegas' gambling problem. But those areas at least want a team, Montreal doesn't.

I think 100,000 people for 2 exhibition games says otherwise

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:39 pm

Cardinals wrote:
Padres wrote:
Orioles wrote:LV and Portland are just far too small of markets to support a MLB team.
I agree. There's also Vegas' gambling problem. But those areas at least want a team, Montreal doesn't.
I think 100,000 people for 2 exhibition games says otherwise

N=2 Big deal.
That sample size is way too small to make anything of it. Two exhibition games are special events. Having baseball in the city for 81 games a year takes the novelty off.

Mets · Post by **Mets** » Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:17 pm

Vegas would be a major failure as transient States have a hard time maintaining a fan base - part of the big reason why Florida has had issues maintaining fans in the cities that they chose. Miami and Tampa aren't the most "Floridian" cities. Jacksonville would have been a better market - but I'm even skeptical about that. The next two most logical cities for a new franchise would be Charlotte and New Orleans (although I have no idea how baseball will do in this market - I do know the Zephers are a popular minor league team locally). After that - you just put a team in Buffalo and let the Montreal fans get behind that.

Guardians · Post by **Guardians** » Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:25 pm

Mets wrote:Vegas would be a major failure as transient States have a hard time maintaining a fan base - part of the big reason why Florida has had issues maintaining fans in the cities that they chose. Miami and Tampa aren't the most "Floridian" cities. Jacksonville would have been a better market - but I'm even skeptical about that. The next two most logical cities for a new franchise would be Charlotte and New Orleans (although I have no idea how baseball will do in this market - I do know the Zephers are a popular minor league team locally). After that - you just put a team in Buffalo and let the Montreal fans get behind that.

Inadvertent (maybe) interesting points: Are there cities with MLB and high minors teams? Usually they're regionally close, but not in the same city. You'd think the Zephyrs would fight an MLB team coming pretty hard since they already have a stadium/fan base. Buffalo's not a bad idea, but I'm sure Rochester isn't well attended. And I think Buffalo used to have an Indians AAA team at one point. Charlotte is interesting, but you have the AA issue.

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:27 pm

New Orleans isn't that big population wise so I don't know that it would work

BlueJays · Post by **BlueJays** » Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:33 pm

Cardinals wrote:New Orleans isn't that big population wise so I don't know that it would work

Cardinals used to have their AAA team there and they played in the Super Dome.

Granted that was a long time ago, but my dad said when he made a trip down there to watch them play, the place was almost completely empty.

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:13 pm

Cardinals wrote:New Orleans isn't that big population wise so I don't know that it would work

They seem to do fine with a basketball team (football too, but that's much less comparable).

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:31 pm

Supporting an NBA team for 41 games with seating capacity around 20,000-30,000 is a lot different than 82 games in a stadium that is going to hold at least 40,000

BlueJays · Post by **BlueJays** » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:45 am

http://blog.sfgate.com/matierandross/20 ... 24875101=0

A's tried to sign a 10 year lease with the coliseum but it's getting held up at city counsel. San Antonio and Montreal are mentioned as possible destinations for the A's since both places have facilities where a team could move in today, and Selig gave the A's the green light to move if they want.

I can't picture San Antonio taking on a team. I loved it there when I visited, but it's a tiny city without much of a metro area. How about moving the A's to Montreal and the ALE, shifting the Royals to the ALW, and the Rays to the ALC?

Nationals · Post by **Nationals** » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:51 am

Orioles wrote:http://blog.sfgate.com/matierandross/20 ... 24875101=0

A's tried to sign a 10 year lease with the coliseum but it's getting held up at city counsel. San Antonio and Montreal are mentioned as possible destinations for the A's since both places have facilities where a team could move in today, and Selig gave the A's the green light to move if they want.

I can't picture San Antonio taking on a team. I loved it there when I visited, but it's a tiny city without much of a metro area. How about moving the A's to Montreal and the ALE, shifting the Royals to the ALW, and the Rays to the ALC?

San Antonio's a tiny city without much of a metro area? It has well over a million people and the metro area is somewhere in the country's top 20. What it doesn't have is a major media market presence; Dallas and Houston teams are the dominant forces (save for those plucky local Spurs...but they got in a long time ago and have had decades to build their local brand). Definitely not a baseball relocation spot. Send the A's to Montreal. Or Charlotte. Or Portland.

BlueJays · Post by **BlueJays** » Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:21 am

I'm going strictly from what I saw when I visited. The downtown was tiny and didn't seem like there were many people there, and as soon as I left city limits it seemed like it was suddenly ranches and not much of civilization.

But... according to wikipedia, it's the 25th largest metropolitan area, so I have no idea where they hide their people there. Metros ahead of them without a team:
Charlotte
Portland
"Inland Empire" (just east of the LA metro area)

I would think, though, that the Astros and Rangers would fight adding a team that close.

Astros · Post by **Astros** » Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:27 am

I think Charlotte is firmly Braves country at this point. I can't see Portland, with what, zero baseball legacy whatsoever, being a good landing spot, plus you'd have to build a retractable roof stadium there with the Pacific Northwest weather. Put them in Montreal!