IBC

Who do you feel worse for? The obvious answer seems like Armando, but the more I think about it, its gotta be shitty for both of them. At least Joyce was classy about it, and owned up to his mistake. What a shame. Bad day for baseball.

As cool as a perfect game is... it's still just trivia. It's far worse when a blown call costs a team a game. On a scale of 1-10 in bad days for baseball, I'd give it abut a 1.5.

Really? I don't know. 100+ years of baseball, only like what, 19 or 20 guys have done it?.... That's a special place. Getting screwed out of it would piss me off beyond belief. Both player and ump seem pretty calm about it though, so maybe its not as big of a deal as it seemed at first. Still higher than a 1.5 for me. Like a 7.

What are the odds that we'd see 3 in a season? Has that ever happened before? Maybe Joyce just saved history. I remember that it hadn't been done twice in a season since 1880.

Cubs wrote:Really? I don't know. 100+ years of baseball, only like what, 19 or 20 guys have done it?.... That's a special place. Getting screwed out of it would piss me off beyond belief. Both player and ump seem pretty calm about it though, so maybe its not as big of a deal as it seemed at first. Still higher than a 1.5 for me. Like a 7.

It's a definite 7 just for the fact that this is going to warp speed conversations about extending instant replay. Hell, no-hitters are iconic...and 3 in a season just does not happen - much less 3 in a month.

As impressed as I was about how both handled the situation (and I was genuinely), it sucks much more for Armando. Every ump has blown a call. There are, what, 20 pitchers out of tens of thousands who have thrown a perfect game.

Nationals wrote:

Cubs wrote:Really? I don't know. 100+ years of baseball, only like what, 19 or 20 guys have done it?.... That's a special place. Getting screwed out of it would piss me off beyond belief. Both player and ump seem pretty calm about it though, so maybe its not as big of a deal as it seemed at first. Still higher than a 1.5 for me. Like a 7.

It's a definite 7 just for the fact that this is going to warp speed conversations about extending instant replay. Hell, no-hitters are iconic...and 3 in a season just does not happen - much less 3 in a month.

As impressed as I was about how both handled the situation (and I was genuinely), it sucks much more for Armando. Every ump has blown a call. There are, what, 20 pitchers out of tens of thousands who have thrown a perfect game.

Gotta go with Joyce. After all, he's the one who will be worrying about this at his next job performance review.

The incident will certainly get the media screaming about instant rreplay.... Again. But I don't think this will put any real pressure on the owners to change anything (and I don't think they should). As amazing and exciting as a perfecto is, like I said, it's still just trivia. Costing a team a win is a much bigger deal.

If a perfect game is nothing more than just trivia - what is more than just trivia? A perfect game is absolutely iconic - and bigger than the sport. I remember exactly where I was watching both Cone and Abbott's no-no's - and the same when the 3 pitchers no-hit the Yankees. I remember where I was when Andy Hawkins LOST a no-hitter 4-0. David Wells no-no...and on and on and on. If you don't believe that those things have permanence in the game - to at least some audience - then, honestly, what do you care about? What isn't "just" trivia?

Baseball has incredible team and individual accomplishments - iconic numbers in a game, season, or career that mean more to its legacy than something any other sport has...a 0 in the hits column is definitely one of those...

I'm with Z on this one.......It is definately more disappointing for Galarraga. A perfect game is timeless......regardless of whether or not it impacts the current standings.

While this may not change the owners view, this is yet another example of why replay should be implemented in MLB. Maybe not for ball and strike calls, but to make sure the Umps get calls right in the field it is a definate. If you listen the Joyce's presser right afterwards, you'll hear the biggest reason why they should implement it. He flattly stated that when the Tiger players came out on the field to argue with him, THEY had already seen the replay and knew he'd blown the call. The Umps were the only ones in the statdium that didn't get to see the replay and they are the ones who SHOULD get to see it.

You think Joyce wouldn't have liked to have had the opportunity to take the 1 to 2 minutes, walk over to a viewing monitor, fieldside and verify an important call like that. It is going to be tough for him, because he will now have to live with the fact that he blew the call that cost someone a perfect game.

Just my 2 cents.

Bigger than the sport? Just think about that for a minute and you'll realize how absurd that sounds.

As for giving it a 7 out of 10 earlier, that too is absurd. We've got the Black Sox at the top of the scale at 10 unquestionably. Pete Rose down a notch at 9 and I'd put the blackballing of non-white players in the 8-9 range. The steroid mess and the various involved players in the 6-8 range depending on the players, with Bonds, Sosa, Mac and Clemens at the top of the list. The ump made an honest mistake that caused no one bodily harm and didn't unjustly cost a team a win. Anything short of criminal or egregiously unethical behaviour shouldn't rate over a 5 and personally I don't see how this rates over a 3 at best. Perspective, get some.

I get the argument on replay. The thing is, there will always be pressure to go further with instant replayand it's going to slow down a game that is already really slow and hard for the average person to watch. The most common complaint about baseball is how slow it is. Better to just accept that human error is simply a a part of the game and of life.. How can you possibly argue that calls on the field are important enough to review, but balls and strikes aren't? I didn't watch the game, but I'm willing to bet that asn't the only bad call that could have been reversed on IR, and every call effects subsequent calls and decisions.

They said this about EVERY other sport - and, guess what, people are generally - if not unanimously FOR instant replay. We have the technology - let's use it. I don't think anyone is arguing balls and strikes should be challenged. I'd imagine balls and strikes will remain subjective - just like there are calls in other sports with instant replay that can't be challenged (holding, pass interference, etc.). However, when something is completely black and white - like safe or out - there should be replay.

It's a pretty easy argument of balls/strikes vs. fair/four, safe/out, homer/no homer - just like not replaying holding or offsides. If this is the launching point for the widespread use of instant replay in baseball - than how the hell would this not be a 7?

Also, thanks for creating your scale. It is without question the most uniquely subjective thing on this thread...would you mind throwing down your definitive list of the top 10 bands of all-time too?

So perfect games are just trivia and don't really matter? Answer me this, would you have any clue who Don Larsen or Len Barker were if they hadn't thrown a perfect game? Hell, I knew who Len Barker was growing up and he threw he perfect game 4 years before I was born for a team I didn't follow

Every time I watch the highlight, I get pissed about it.

When I heard about the blown call last night, I wanted to punch a hole in my wall, but I just drank a beer instead.

Aaron, what you were saying there... That's pretty much the definition of trivia.

Congratulations Z, you recognized that opinions are subjective. Have a cookie! I'd love to see you try to defend giving this a 7 on the bad day for baseball scale, but of course we all know you won't because it's an absurd statement and was made only for the sake of being argumentative.

As to the original question of Joyce or Armando feeling worse... So far Armando got a free corvette, has been lauded all over the news and in spit of not making the 'Perfecto' list, his name will always be associated with it along with Pedro Martinez, Harvey Haddix and Ernie Shore. Joyce on the other hand has clearly been shaken by the incident, is now a goat in the game and is probably at least a little worried about his job. I would not be at all surprised if this is his last season. Anyone really want to argue that Galarraga is the worse off of the two?

If Don Denkinger umpired for over a decade after costing the Cardinals the 1985 World Series on a much worse call then Joyce has nothing to worry about. I'm sure Steve Paliermo will have a long talk with him soon and that'll be that

Cardinals wrote:If Don Denkinger umpired for over a decade after costing the Cardinals the 1985 World Series on a much worse call then Joyce has nothing to worry about. I'm sure Steve Paliermo will have a long talk with him soon and that'll be that

A couple points. The first is that Joyce isn't Denkinger. i don't know what the guy's personal makeup is like, bu from everything I've seen, he looked really upset about it, more upset than i would have expected, and it didn't look faked.
The second point is that the media world of 1985 bears no resemblance whatsoever to the media world of 2010.There are half a dozen 24hour national cable sports news channels plus dozens of regional ones, and that's not even counting the internet. There's coverage and pressure on this that can't compare to 1985. I'm not saying Joyce is done or that this will be his last season. I'm just saying it wouldn't surprise me, and if I HAD to pick one way or the other, I'd say he'll be back, but I don't think it's a sure thing. The larger point is of course that he's definitely having a harder time with this than Galarraga is.