IBC

Please remember that the IBC 08 Rookie draft begins December 1st. The last day for pick trading is this Sunday, 11:59 PM EST.

I'm hoping to have the draft queue stuff up on Friday, then I'll be around most of Monday in case anything goes wrong from changing last year's stuff.

If over the limits (draft and regular roster) will we need to make cuts prior to selecting a player?

Yes, I believe there was some confusion last year due to OOPSS's capabilities last year, so I'll have to check if it's required when making the pick or not.

Lost the thread the discussion was in, but I think you should be under the limit heading into the draft. Even for guys not selecting on that day - you're going to have to do it anyway. Having everyone available on waiver at the same time right before the draft would go a long ways towards speeding up the draft. People wouldn't have to think about dropping, just picking.

Royals wrote:Lost the thread the discussion was in, but I think you should be under the limit heading into the draft. Even for guys not selecting on that day - you're going to have to do it anyway. Having everyone available on waiver at the same time right before the draft would go a long ways towards speeding up the draft. People wouldn't have to think about dropping, just picking.

The bottom line is that NOT including draft picks, no team should be over 50 in its roster size ever - including during the draft.

The Mets are at 49 right now and can make pick 5 without dropping anyone but I must either complete an approved multiplayer trade (2 for 1, 3 for 2) or cut someone before I can make pick 6. Because I am involved in trade discussions I prefer not to make another cut quite yet...

There needs to be an official decision on this. Personally, unless I see an announcement otherwise, I'm going by the way we've don it in the past, which is drop and draft. If you can't figure out who to drop, then that's your problem. I've always gone into the draft with a clear idea of who I'd drop over the course of the draft.

In response to Jim, your 6's are moving into your regular roster, and you'll have to pick up 7's or 8's to fill out your draft roster. You will know exactly how many people you need to cut - and since there's no trading draft picks come midnight, I'm not sure what your argument is. I say 6's should be moved prior to the draft, and people forced to make decisions ahead of, as opposed to in, real time.

That's the way I figured it. All "6" players must be moved to the regular roster prior to the draft and cuts would be needed to do that in most cases.

As Bren said, the current rule in regard to both the 50 man roster is that you must drop as you pick. The current rule in regard to 06s is that they roll at the conclusion of the draft. I don't sense much of a movement to change the first portion.

On the 06s, as I said in the other thread, I think that you could rightly argue either before or after the draft as the appropriate time for them to roll, but logistically these concerns might have been brought up too late in the process for us to demand that everyone correct their draft rosters by midnight. From this discussion, we should definitely talk about it for the future. Maybe I'm forgetting a complication that rolling the 06s at the end of the draft has caused, though.

It was not really brought up too late. I sent a PM to JP Wednesday (I think) asking for clarification and he said to expect a post from the league that would clarify the whole thing probably on Friday. We have had almost an entire year to figure this out but here we are going down the same road again.

Nationals wrote:It was not really brought up too late. I sent a PM to JP Wednesday (I think) asking for clarification and he said to expect a post from the league that would clarify the whole thing probably on Friday. We have had almost an entire year to figure this out but here we are going down the same road again.

I don't think I was party to that, but we did discuss sending out something in response to these posts. All a clarification would involve, though, is stating the rules as they are. To actually change the 06 date would require a rule change, and while it would be no problem to address that, even if it had been done by Thursday or Friday, do you really think that Thanksgiving weekend would be enough notice to give guys? Again, that's my only real concern.

We did have a whole year to talk about it, but I think that our feeling at least on the exco was that it was just something that needed to be better monitored. If there was a big push to change that portion of the rules last spring I guess we were not aware of that.

How would you like for this to be addressed procedurally?

When the draft date was moved obviously the 06 date would change. 06 players should be moved to the regular roster prior to the draft. There should not be an opportunity to deal those players (or players they would replace on the roster) afterwards when a team is over the limits.

Nationals wrote:When the draft date was moved obviously the 06 date would change. 06 players should be moved to the regular roster prior to the draft. There should not be an opportunity to deal those players (or players they would replace on the roster) afterwards when a team is over the limits.

Okay, this is a good argument on why we should roll them prior to the draft. But to carry my question from the other thread to here, assuming that we vote today and change this rule, I'm asking for your input as to what you think the league should do for this one year, prior to the deadline being on December 1 next year and on. In other words:

1. make everyone fix their rosters tonight, or we start cutting players
2. set a date during the draft, such as January 1, to proceed with the rule change this year but give some grace period for the sake of practicality
3. leave the rule as is this year and institute it next year

In order to assure that no team profits from being over the limits a freeze on trades should be instituted for at least those teams that are not in compliance with the roster limits (both draft and 40/50 limits).

Then come up with a date that is reasonable for those teams to comply. Hopefully no more than a week or so from now.

The other option is to simply not allow teams to draft until in compliance. This would make the draft take longer but it is not like we are in a hurry.

Okay, we'll try to address this as quickly as possible.

Nationals wrote:In order to assure that no team profits from being over the limits a freeze on trades should be instituted for at least those teams that are not in compliance with the roster limits (both draft and 40/50 limits).

Then come up with a date that is reasonable for those teams to comply. Hopefully no more than a week or so from now.

The other option is to simply not allow teams to draft until in compliance. This would make the draft take longer but it is not like we are in a hurry.

This still does not address the situation where a team may decide to only draft 4 players if that team already has 6 draft players to keep ... are you suggesting that team be forced to throw away a 3rd round pick?

I'd say yes. If he's good enough, you'd want to keep him on your 40 man if there's already 10 drafted anyway.

Mets wrote:

Nationals wrote:In order to assure that no team profits from being over the limits a freeze on trades should be instituted for at least those teams that are not in compliance with the roster limits (both draft and 40/50 limits).

Then come up with a date that is reasonable for those teams to comply. Hopefully no more than a week or so from now.

The other option is to simply not allow teams to draft until in compliance. This would make the draft take longer but it is not like we are in a hurry.

This still does not address the situation where a team may decide to only draft 4 players if that team already has 6 draft players to keep ... are you suggesting that team be forced to throw away a 3rd round pick?

Are you referring to someone who has, say, more than five 07s? If so, this wouldn't affect those players, because they are still eligible for draft slots, and draft picks wouldn't count against your roster until they are made.

I have six 07s, so if the roll-over is moved to before the draft, I'm faced with the same decision now as I will be when I pick, whether to use all five of my picks or maybe not use the last one and keep all six 07s to reach the minimum of ten draftees. Otherwise, my decision process is unchanged. I have to have no more than 40 non-07/08 players, and if it is a matter of an 06 versus a draft pick, assuming that I'm going to be under 40 non draftees, I can still make that decision when I pick.

Changing the rule at the last minute would be a very questionable decision, one I hope you guys don't make. Forcing GM's to make their cuts before the draft forces them to decide whether they're going to make 3 picks, 5 picks, or 7 picks. Just because you have 5 picks, doesn't mean you'll make 5 picks. Depending on the depth of your roster and number fo picks from the prior draft on your roster, a GM may stop after the second or third round. Forcing them to make that call beforehand, particularly when we haven't done it before, would not be right, especially making that change right before the draft.

RedSox wrote:Changing the rule at the last minute would be a very questionable decision, one I hope you guys don't make. Forcing GM's to make their cuts before the draft forces them to decide whether they're going to make 3 picks, 5 picks, or 7 picks. Just because you have 5 picks, doesn't mean you'll make 5 picks. Depending on the depth of your roster and number fo [sic] picks from the prior draft on your roster, a GM may stop after the second or third round. Forcing them to make that call beforehand, particularly when we haven't done it before, would not be right, especially making that change right before the draft.

Bold = my emphasis

For the first time in a long time I agree with Bren ....

Mets wrote:

RedSox wrote:Changing the rule at the last minute would be a very questionable decision, one I hope you guys don't make. Forcing GM's to make their cuts before the draft forces them to decide whether they're going to make 3 picks, 5 picks, or 7 picks. Just because you have 5 picks, doesn't mean you'll make 5 picks. Depending on the depth of your roster and number fo [sic] picks from the prior draft on your roster, a GM may stop after the second or third round. Forcing them to make that call beforehand, particularly when we haven't done it before, would not be right, especially making that change right before the draft.

Bold = my emphasis

For the first time in a long time I agree with Bren ....

Careful... agreeing with me is often political suicide.

RedSox wrote:Changing the rule at the last minute would be a very questionable decision, one I hope you guys don't make. Forcing GM's to make their cuts before the draft forces them to decide whether they're going to make 3 picks, 5 picks, or 7 picks. Just because you have 5 picks, doesn't mean you'll make 5 picks. Depending on the depth of your roster and number fo picks from the prior draft on your roster, a GM may stop after the second or third round. Forcing them to make that call beforehand, particularly when we haven't done it before, would not be right, especially making that change right before the draft.

I have to agree with Bren here, as well. We have always run the draft that you drop a player before you make your pick in order to make sure your roster is in compliance. Changing that here at the last minute would be a bad idea in my opinion. Especially since I'm still down here in Phoenix and won't be back up in Seattle until tomorrow night, but aside from that Bren's point that having to decide how many picks you are going to make now, before the drat starts is a bad idea, as the draft is fluid and you may be targeting specific players in the latter rounds and if they get picked earlier you might prefer to keep the guys you already have.

Anyways, just my two cents.

Not sure that the point is being understood. My only real concern was that the 06 players should be placed on the regular roster. That does not require that you know how many players you plan on picking because they need to be on the regular roster anyways. A team does not need to cut 07 players unless they run out of room on both rosters and that can be done as they draft 08 players.

However it's done it just needs to be organized so that being over the limit does not allow teams to profit from it by dealing from an oversized roster. Now I will leave it be and let the ExCo figure out the best way to deal with it.