Intl signings

[Guardians]

I'd like some clarification on zips for guys coming back from foreign leagues:

Our rules state that they need to be bid on.

I made a thread on 1/23 to try to capture anyone who was coming back to the US after spending time in a foreign league last year: no one was posted.

Ken signed a guy who signed with a team before 1/23 but was never posted on that thread. I think I erred in saying he needs to be bid on. So I think he should be free to keep him as a free agent signing since he was never posted in the thread.

However, if someone comes back after 1/23 and signs, would that person be subject to zips bidding? I think yes. But we may have a gray area in the rule that needs to be clarified.

[Reds]

I'm not sure how to deal with the players who sign after the initial posting/bidding. We can't post all the players who sign after that date and keep bidding on them. Perhaps there should be a period after they sign that bidding may occur, or maybe they should just go on waivers (provided the waiver order is kept up to date). I don't think many returning players would sign from overseas this late in the offseason, so maybe just set a cutoff date.

[Rangers]

It has seemed to me like we've left grey areas on this as well, but I haven't really thought through it. Maybe we should put in this thread any of our related rule communications? I just want to make sure we evaluate real precedent correctly.

Here is what the rules currently say:

VI. Free Agents and Eligibility
Any player who is eligible to play in the MLB is eligible to be signed by an IBC franchise. A player may be ineligible for any number of reasons including the following. Retirement (official or unofficial), expulsion from baseball, player's rights being owned by a foreign professional team, player not having submitted for the draft yet, etc.

A player is eligible to play for their team if he is eligible to be signed and is not prevented from doing so due to an injury or suspension.

After 24 hours, whichever GM has the highest waiver priority gets that player and the player he released goes on waivers. That GM also moves to the bottom of the waiver priority list. If, after 24 hours, no one has claimed the player, he clears waivers and can be signed by anyone without affecting their order in the waiver priority list.
Waiver Priority Order is set and refreshed on the first of the following months (May, June, July, August, September, October) based on team record. Ties will be broken by record over the last 10 days.

VII. ZiPS Bidding
ZiPS bidding is a process that covers both teams acquiring players when their ZiPS projections are released each winter and also players who leave the US to play elsewhere and return to an MLB team.
During the offseason when ZiPS projections are released at www.fangraphs.com, the league uses a bidding system to acquire players. Each team is provided a budget of ZiPS dollars to bid on players they wish to acquire. As soon as players and teams are posted on www.fangraphs.com, IBC free agents become available and teams must create a thread in the designated forum on www.ibcleague.com with their bid amount. 24 hours after the last bid, the player will be awarded and ZiPS dollars will be deducted from that GM’s account, which is also posted. If teams tie, waiver order will break the tie; however, waiver orders will not change through this process. If a player doesn’t receive a bid 24 hours after release on www.fangraphs.com, he is a free agent in IBC. No players from a given team may be signed once team comps have been posted on Twitter by Dan Szymborski.
ZiPS budgets will also be the tool to acquire players who leave the US to play elsewhere and return to an MLB team. These players are distinct from foreign players eligible for the draft (see IX Drafts). The same process described above in VII (2) will apply to foreign free agents. These foreign free agents will only be eligible for signing through the ZiPS bidding process in the offseason.

IX. Drafts
Players subject to the draft will include any amateur player who has been signed by an MLB organization during the prior calendar year, whether through draft or international signings. (EXAMPLE: If a player was signed to a contract during calendar year 2018 but had not been signed to a contract prior to 2018 then he is eligible for the IBC 2018 draft, which is held in February 2019). Any players not subject to the MLB International Free Agent pool (such as professional players from Cuba, Japan, Korea and Mexico not affiliated with an MLB organization prior to the previous calendar year (2018 for the IBC 2018 draft) are eligible to be drafted. If the player does not officially sign with an MLB organization prior to the beginning of the IBC draft, they are not eligible to be drafted until the following year.
Following the completion of the IBC draft, any players who were drafted by or signed to a contract by an MLB team during the prior calendar year (in 2018 for the example above) or earlier become free agents.

Upon completion of 5 rounds, all remaining eligible players are put on waivers. GMs must email the ExCo a list of players they would like to claim off waivers (including who would be dropped for each waiver claim if successful) within 48 hours of last pick of the draft. Waivers will be awarded in order of the original draft list order based on previous season’s final standings. Once waivers are awarded, all remaining eligible draft players become free agents.

[Guardians]

The intent of adding the international and spreadsheet zips threads is so we have as many opportunities for guys to be bid on rather than snagged as free agents as possible. And since zips ended and guys were coming back from foreign leagues, I wanted to have a place where bids could be placed so it wasn't just a freeforall on free agents, which is why we created this process in the first place. But no one posted anyone in the thread. So, I agree Ken gets his guy who kind of floated through.

So, I think (my interpretation) is that guys who sign after the thread is posted are still subject to zips bidding. But there's not really an established process for this. For instance, if a guy signs, does he have to be posted? If not, is he a free agent after 24 hours passes? Does every player need to be at least posted?

[Reds]

I like the intent of the ZiPs bidding for international or spreadsheet players, but if we tweak the process how should that look. Do we post individual players as they sign? That seems like it may cause problems if players are missed. Prominent signings likely won't be an issue. It's the fringe guys that might be missed which will be problematic. In the case of Waguespack the post was pretty specific in saying that players already signed would become free agents after 24 hours if unbid upon, and he had signed 8 days prior. Going forward we could say if a player is signed by a team there are a few days to bid on them and then they become free agents. This could be done without listing players and 24 hours seems too short if we aren't posting individual players.

[Guardians]

Since a team is posted for each zips release, all those players are forced to be seen. Even if no one places a bid and everyone hopes they skate through, they are part of the zips post. So, for that reason, I think we should find some level of consistency.

I suggest something like this:

We create an international guys thread like this year. I think players who sign coming back from a foreign league have to be posted there. If the guy doesn't get posted, he remains a free agent until after the season.

That does two things: It should boost interest in zips bidding AND it should avoid a guy falling through the cracks only to be signed b/c someone saw a random tweet or article.

I keep thinking back to why we created this process in the first place: Nate out west getting screwed every year because zips articles were being posted at 10 a.m., but 7 a.m. for him and he couldn't get anyone. I think everyone should have a chance to get these players, otherwise there's an unfair balance that we've tried to avoid.

[Padres]

I follow signings pretty closely and will volunteer to start and keep up a thread similar to the one I do for players who sign overseas ...

[Guardians]

That would be great, Jim. Thank you for volunteering. If everyone agrees, I think this would be the best option to avoid future issues.

[Reds]

Thanks Pat & Jim for coming up with a solution. One point of clarification. We are using the signing date, not the date the players ZiPS appear except if they appear in the ZiPS release for a specific team and are already signed, correct? So if a player signs after all ZiPS are out he gets posted.

[Guardians]

I would say if a guy coming back from a foreign league is part of the Dan Z zips post, he's subject to those rules. If he signs in another window of time where he's not captured in a zips post, he's subject to this posting process. The goal is to capture those who fall through the cracks

[Cardinals]

Thanks Pat & Jim for coming up with a solution. One point of clarification. We are using the signing date, not the date the players ZiPS appear except if they appear in the ZiPS release for a specific team and are already signed, correct? So if a player signs after all ZiPS are out he gets posted.

Agree with this point. It should be the signing date in the above scenario.

[Marlins]

Not saying I disagree with it being based on signing date, but does that mean people would still have to decide to bid maybe before a zips is available for that player? If so, then it's a free for all once the zips comes out, whoever sees it first wins?

[Guardians]

Not saying I disagree with it being based on signing date, but does that mean people would still have to decide to bid maybe before a zips is available for that player? If so, then it's a free for all once the zips comes out, whoever sees it first wins?

I think the timing is never perfect on this. There are a lot of players who fall through the cracks timing-wise (they sign after team zips, so you have to wait for the spreadsheet/projections page on FG), so yes I think if a guy signs and you don't know the zips, you have to gamble a little. But otherwise, there's no process for capturing these players. I would rather err on the side of posting and allowing bidding than not.

[Marlins]

If it's all about the zips (it's called "zips bidding"), then why not make it based on when a guy's zips come out instead of when signing?

[Reds]

If it's all about the zips (it's called "zips bidding"), then why not make it based on when a guy's zips come out instead of when signing?

I haven’t found a way to track when players are added to the ZiPS database on FanGraphs. Posting players when they sign seems like the best option. It just means teams may occasionally need to speculate and take a risk. Similar to what we do between the time a season ends and the ZiPS team releases start.

[Guardians]

Bauer signed with a Mexican League team. Ben signed him. I think since he's still technically coming from a foreign league, he's not eligible to be signed, but I'd like the group's thoughts.

[Reds]

Bauer signed with a Mexican League team. Ben signed him. I think since he's still technically coming from a foreign league, he's not eligible to be signed, but I'd like the group's thoughts.

According to our rules he becomes eligible for the ZiPS bidding once he signs with an MLB team so he can't be signed. It would be similar to a team signing an overseas player anticipating that he may be posted or signed in the coming seasons. Though I'm not sure our rules specifically prevent that for returning players. It's probably moot re Bauer as I doubt he ever plays in the MLB again.

[Marlins]

So, is Zips bidding a year long thing now? If Bauer signs with a team in, say, August, does Zips bidding come into play for this year or is it for next year? When does one Zips bidding season and and the next begins?

[Reds]

Good question. My understanding is that it's done when the season starts and anyone who signs after that goes to the next offseason. I'm fine if in those rare occurrences we just put the player on waivers. I'd also like to see a hard cutoff date on the ZiPS bidding prior to the season starting.

[Guardians]

Good question. My understanding is that it's done when the season starts and anyone who signs after that goes to the next offseason. I'm fine if in those rare occurrences we just put the player on waivers. I'd also like to see a hard cutoff date on the ZiPS bidding prior to the season starting.

Yes, that has been the interpretation. I think we'll need to update the rules prior to next offseason to tighten it up a bit.

[Padres]

I think Bauer is clearly ineligible to be signed NOW (although I fully expected someone would attempt to sign him when I posted his recent "Mexican signing with hope to sign with MLB club later posting).

To clarify - I think the IBC ZiPs bidding process should end 24 hours prior to the first official real season game of the MLB season so this year, for example, it would on the 19th of March. Thereafter if a player who formerly had a contract with an MLB organization and has been playing overseas (Japan, Korea, Mexico, etc.) signs with a MLB team during the regular season, that player shall be subject to the normal IBC waiver process for 24 hours after his signing is posted on the IBC forum. Once the MLB playoffs start, a player who formerly had a contract with an MLB organization and has been playing overseas (Japan, Korea, Mexico, etc.) signs with a MLB team shall be subject to the IBC ZiPs waiver process for the following year.