IBC

Just a placeholder topic once we have a clearer picture, but as the CBA drags, we may need to consider pushing the draft back to accommodate international signings and the rest of free agency/zips.

...and to wait for a good list to come out to use instead of draft order for any GM-less teams.

On the point of pushing the date back, I believe regular international signings will begin Jan 15 like last year and would not be affected by the lockout as these players not part of the 40 man rosters. Cannot find direct confirmation of that, has anyone? I think the only guys affected would be Japanese players, Seiya Suzuki the biggest name here. Sounds like Sugano opting to stay in Japan at least another year, are there others who are being discussed about coming over? I am guessing the lockout will keep anyone else considering away this year. I think the two main options would be keep the draft timing as is and let the GMs decide if they want to take the risk on a guy like Suzuki signing by opening day or push back the draft to once we have some kind of idea when the lockout will end.

We drafted on 3/1 last year because of the January "J2" signings. We could target 3/1 again this year which would buy us time. Hopefully this isn't dragging any longer than that.

And we'll be using this list for GM-less teams, right? Right....?

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories ... ings-2022/

Pirates wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 3:10 pm We drafted on 3/1 last year because of the January "J2" signings. We could target 3/1 again this year which would buy us time. Hopefully this isn't dragging any longer than that.

3/1 in agreement here? I don't think we're at a place to start on 2/1. Would be a shame for Suzuki to have to sit out this season for us.

3/1 tentatively for now. Need to see what happens with the CBA. Suzuki, et al, is the factor there.

Is there anyone other than Suzuki in limbo with the CBA?

Since the lockout due to the CBA is an out of the ordinary event, should we make an exception for his draft eligibility? Something like for the intl guys still have to sign before 3/1 to be eligible but for Suzuki, he is eligible as long as he signs within the balance of his 30 days post? Still a risk he doesn't sign, but at least the risk involved would not be related to the length of the lockout.

Marlins wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:34 pm Is there anyone other than Suzuki in limbo with the CBA?

Since the lockout due to the CBA is an out of the ordinary event, should we make an exception for his draft eligibility? Something like for the intl guys still have to sign before 3/1 to be eligible but for Suzuki, he is eligible as long as he signs within the balance of his 30 days post? Still a risk he doesn't sign, but at least the risk involved would not be related to the length of the lockout.

No, because if you draft him without knowing if he's signed, you're taking a major gamble with a top 10 pick. I think we need to wait until we have more info. I think people will understand.

I have been a pretty strong advocate of holding the draft later so that we can have more certainty around whether players will join MLB affiliation. We have another week or so still until 3/1 but we'll soon need to make a call on whether to have a lockout exception for international players waiting to sign major league deals. The thing that I think we have to consider is that if we push the draft back further, players will be playing games while the draft is going on and I've never loved that idea.

I don't disagree we need to make a decision this week. But I would still advocate for pushing it back further. I agree that having minor leaguers playing when we draft isn't great, but we could be drafting while guys are in spring training in a normal year, so I don't see a huge difference. Injuries can occur a number of ways. I think we need to see which foreign players will sign or stay before we start. I suggest we just postpone it and give everyone 7-10 days' notice once we are ready to kick it off.

Is there anyone other than Suzuki in play here? Assuming it's just him, my thoughts would be we start draft on time and just say as long as he signs before his posting period ends he's eligible and whoever drafts him takes that risk on. I don't think there's really all that much risk.

There are a decent number of guys in their 20s on The BOARD on Fangraphs, but I'm not sure the likelihood many of them sign.

Wouldn't it be clean and simple to just say draft starts Mar 1, only guys signed by Mar 1 eligible other than Suzuki since we're technically in the middle of his posting period, but if he doesn't sign by the end of his posting period the GM loses him?

Last year the draft took 48 days, I think delaying the start past Mar 1 is not a good idea.

Marlins wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 8:49 am Is there anyone other than Suzuki in play here? Assuming it's just him, my thoughts would be we start draft on time and just say as long as he signs before his posting period ends he's eligible and whoever drafts him takes that risk on. I don't think there's really all that much risk.

I think this is the best option, unfortunately. Minor leaguers are beginning spring training. I think we have to make an exception on Suzuki and all other foreign players (if any) coming over must be signed prior to 3/1.

Pirates wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 9:00 am I think this is the best option, unfortunately. Minor leaguers are beginning spring training. I think we have to make an exception on Suzuki and all other foreign players (if any) coming over must be signed prior to 3/1.

I agree, let's get it going. Hopefully a deal gets done soon and it won't matter.

So, to be clear:

We're going to say the draft starts 3/1

Any foreign players not signed are eligible to be drafted, but the GM takes the risk of them not signing and losing them? The question there is what if Suzuki signs in May, June, etc? Is the cut off the first day of the season? I think we need to establish one. Otherwise, someone drafts a guy and just holds his rights until he eventually comes over (when the CBA is signed and things are more stable). I wouldn't be surprised if some foreign players sign for a year in Japan/Korea and just re-engage with MLB next year.

If we start 3/1 and foreign player eligibility lasts until the first day of the season, otherwise you lose that player/get nothing for the pick, I'm agreeable to that.

More simply, draft starts 3/1. Intl guys eligible if signed by 2/28, same as last year with exception of Suzuki who must sign by the end of his posting period.

Marlins wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:51 am More simply, draft starts 3/1. Intl guys eligible if signed by 2/28, same as last year with exception of Suzuki who must sign by the end of his posting period.

Making an exception for one player might not be fair. Why not just push the sign by date a bit. Maybe May 1st?

I think the reason for that is had there not been a lockout, Suzuki's 30 day posting period would be way past and we'd know he is signed or not signed. Younger international guys (non-40 man) are still being signed left and right. Last year we already changed the sign-by date and we've already seen all year long guys signing guys who are eligible for 21 draft. I think the last thing we should do is make any more changes to that date. Suzuki the only exception due to us technically being in the middle of his posting period.

Nils' reasoning is correct.

I am anti making an exception, but I'm even more anti-pushing the draft date back, and even more anti-having the sign-by date be floating and into the spring.

Pirates wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 7:44 pm Nils' reasoning is correct.

I am anti making an exception, but I'm even more anti-pushing the draft date back, and even more anti-having the sign-by date be floating and into the spring.

Sounds like you're pretty anti everything

I'm ok with a 3/1 draft date, but there's a zero percent chance Suzuki signs by 2/28. That's in six days. There's no way there's a CBA completed and he signs by then. So, we're basically making him (and anyone else from a foreign league) ineligible for the draft. The only real solution I see to this is you can draft a guy starting on 3/1, but if he doesn't sign by opening day, you have to drop him and he floats into next year's draft. In a normal season, foreign guys would be signed before 3/1 because pitchers and catchers would report by mid-February. Only veterans who can't get a job would be unsigned and those are free agents for us. In this scenario, there's risk for a GM, but at least there's a chance you can use a guy who's projected at 2-3 wins (and others who potentially could be useful) this year. Otherwise, he becomes ineligible until next year's draft after he's played a full MLB season.

I don't get it. Why is there so much push back on this? It's pretty simple. Draft starts 3/1. Eligible players are a) guys drafted in 2021 draft, b) intl guys signed between 3/1/2021 through 2/28/2022, and c) Seiya Suzuki and whoever drafts Suzuki only keeps him if he signs before the end of his "30" day posting period. Was anyone else posted before the lockout I don't know about? Suzuki was posted, only reason we don't know if he will sign is due to the lockout. That's the only reason for the single exception.

I think I misread your above post. So, Suzuki is the only exception and he has the remaining portion of his posting period once his clock starts back to sign and the drafting team gets to keep him? I get it now. Not ideal, but none of this is.

We probably need to vote:

A) Draft starts 3/1. Any drafted players and signed international guys from 3/1/21 through 2/28/22 with the exception of Suzuki, who is eligible to be drafted and the drafting team can keep him if he signs by the end of his posting period, once that clock restarts.

B) Draft is postponed further until resolution of the CBA

A

(basically thinking it's the lesser of evils, screw MLB)