IBC

Pete Rose has been a hot topic, again, in some circles since he has changed his story, again, and says he bet on the Reds to win every night as a manager (but never as a player) after denying for decades he ever bet on baseball at all after signing a document agreeing to be banned from baseball.
Meanwhile, the Dowd Report shows he bet on baseball as a player and as a manager and did not bet on the Reds every night at any point.
http://www.dowdreport.com/

Discuss!

What's there to discuss? Pete Rose and his supporters believe that if you're a superstar the rules shouldn't apply. That attitude is why we can't go a week without either PacMan Jones or a Cincinnatti Bengal getting arrested.

Can't he belong in both? The guy was one of the best hitters ever and he was also one of the most dishonest. The two halls of fame should not be mutually exclusive.

Since 1919 there has been only one absolutely inviolable no excuses no exceptions rule. Pete Rose broke that rule, therefore he should suffer the consequences.

If he got in, then what would people talk about...

Him not being in is a better story for baseball than him being in.

Ty Cobb is a noted gambler and probably one of the worst individuals ever - he's in the Hall of Fame.

Gaylord Perry put more crap on a baseball then every other pitcher combined.

The list doesn't stop there. I think Pete Rose is one of the most despicable men of all-time - but it's not the "Baseball Best People Hall of Fame" it's the "Hall of Fame."

This is literally like not having Kareem Abdul-Jabbar not in the Basketball Hall of Fame. It's absolutely ludicrous.

Rockies wrote:If he got in, then what would people talk about...

Him not being in is a better story for baseball than him being in.

That is absolutely the worst reasoning I've ever heard of validating why Pete Rose shouldn't be in the HOF. If you keep him out it's for gambling on baseball and for no other reason. To put him in, you have to look the other way on gambling. The guy hit .300 or close to it for 17 straight years.

Got this from the Pete Rose wiki:
Baseball-Reference.com, which rates past and present players by metrics of Hall of Fame worthiness, rates Rose eleventh among all hitters all-time for Hall of Fame worthiness, with a score of 313 (100 is accepted as a good Hall of Fame candidate). His rating is the second-highest among those not already in the Hall of Fame, with only Barry Bonds (345) rating higher.

In a December 2002 interview, investigator Dowd stated that he believed that Rose may have bet against the Reds while managing them;[8]. However, his official report states "no evidence was discovered that Rose bet against the Cincinnati Reds."

Either you have the evidence or you don't, if you don't, then Fay Vincent, Bud Selig and whoever follows Selig should act on his application for reinstatement.

Looking through that wiki brought back some memories, like the Jim Gray fiasco as well as the memorable Chad Curtis protest.

With this, anyone want to argue why Shoeless Joe isn't in yet?

Rockies wrote:If he got in, then what would people talk about...

Him not being in is a better story for baseball than him being in.

Yea i'm all for keeping him out, but this is probably the most retarded reasoning on this subject. Given the source though Im not too surprised.

Dodgers wrote:

Rockies wrote:If he got in, then what would people talk about...

Him not being in is a better story for baseball than him being in.

That is absolutely the worst reasoning I've ever heard of validating why Pete Rose shouldn't be in the HOF. If you keep him out it's for gambling on baseball and for no other reason. To put him in, you have to look the other way on gambling. The guy hit .300 or close to it for 17 straight years.

Got this from the Pete Rose wiki:
Baseball-Reference.com, which rates past and present players by metrics of Hall of Fame worthiness, rates Rose eleventh among all hitters all-time for Hall of Fame worthiness, with a score of 313 (100 is accepted as a good Hall of Fame candidate). His rating is the second-highest among those not already in the Hall of Fame, with only Barry Bonds (345) rating higher.

In a December 2002 interview, investigator Dowd stated that he believed that Rose may have bet against the Reds while managing them;[8]. However, his official report states "no evidence was discovered that Rose bet against the Cincinnati Reds."

Either you have the evidence or you don't, if you don't, then Fay Vincent, Bud Selig and whoever follows Selig should act on his application for reinstatement.

Looking through that wiki brought back some memories, like the Jim Gray fiasco as well as the memorable Chad Curtis protest.

With this, anyone want to argue why Shoeless Joe isn't in yet?

He broke baseball's cardinal rule, AGREED to the baseball ban, then lied about it for profit for 20+ years. What more reason would you need?

Rockies wrote:If he got in, then what would people talk about...

Him not being in is a better story for baseball than him being in.

I guess i forgot

"Insert sarcasm here"

some guys take this thing too seriously.

That being said....how would people look upon MLB for reversing their stance from the last 2 decades?

It's not a rule that procludes someone from being in the Hall of Fame. HE signed the agreement that he would be banned from baseball. He has repeatedly proven he's an idiot - gambling and being an idiot are NOT criteria for the Hall of Fame.

My vote is to induct him the year after he dies.

Can we vote for both?

You could have, but Bren didn't set this poll up to allow it.

Dodgers wrote:You could have, but Bren didn't set this poll up to allow it.

Darn right, it's an either/or situation.

Royals wrote:Ty Cobb is a noted gambler and probably one of the worst individuals ever - he's in the Hall of Fame.

Gaylord Perry put more crap on a baseball then every other pitcher combined.

The list doesn't stop there. I think Pete Rose is one of the most despicable men of all-time - but it's not the "Baseball Best People Hall of Fame" it's the "Hall of Fame."

This is literally like not having Kareem Abdul-Jabbar not in the Basketball Hall of Fame. It's absolutely ludicrous.

Wanna know something about professional athletes, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM GAMBLES! They gamble on everything from cards to golf to sports. The Cardinal rule is not no gambling, its NO GAMBLING ON A GAME THAT YOU ARE INVOLVED IN. Pete Rose isn't excluded from the Hall because he's a jerk, he's excluded from the Hall because he bet on his own games. If Kareem Abdul-Jabbar had bet on Laker games while he was playing and coaching you can be damn sure he wouldn't be in the
Basketball Hall of Fame (same going for Marino in Canton, and Gretzky in hockey. If it turns out Hulk Hogan bet on himself to win his own matches Vince would probably let him stay in the WWE Hall however).

PETE ROSE spoke last week, which means, of course, he misspoke. He told Dan Patrick on ESPN Radio that while he was managing the Cincinnati Reds, "I bet on my team every night."

This would somewhat alter the position he took between 1989 and 2004, when Rose said he never bet on baseball.

In fact, let's take a moment to track Rose's ever-changing story as it has unfolded:

1. He said he did not bet on baseball. Period.

2. He said he occasionally bet on baseball but never on the Reds.

3. He said bet once in a while on the Reds.

4. He said he bet every night on the Reds.

It's as if Eddie Haskell grew up, left Mayfield and became a switch-hitting gambler.

(Gambling Tale I: A guy's losing his shirt and goes to a friend looking for a sure winner. The friend tells him, "I've got a basketball game for you. Three of the team's starters are hurt and the coach is my nephew — he says there's no way his team can win — plus the referee's my brother-in-law, and he's in my pocket. As much as you want to win, that's how much you can bet against this team." "OK," says the gambler, "now give me another team so I can make a parlay.")

With Rose again crawling out from under a shylock's shoe, talk radio again crackled with talk of whether Rose should be in the Baseball Hall of Fame.

Currently on baseball's "permanently ineligible" list, Rose appears to have a new modus operandi — if I admit to everything, he's thinking, maybe MLB will reinstate me. Next week he'll confess to kidnapping the Lindbergh baby, the week after he'll cop to masterminding Enron's accounting fraud and — bang! — by the end of the month he might be named National League president.

Rose had a .303 career batting average, which, coincidentally, is the percentage of sports bets he wins and the percentage of times he tells the truth.

Here are the two most remarkable statistics in baseball history:

-Cal Ripken played 2,632 consecutive games.

-Pete Rose lied 2,632 consecutive days.

(Gambling Tale II: A guy bets every college football game on Saturdays and every NFL game on Sundays; each weekend he loses a bundle. He's a bookmaker's dream. But the football season's ending and the bookie is worried he's about to lose his best revenue stream. So he tells the gambler, "Listen, hockey is under way and we'll be happy to take your action." "Hockey?" said the man, insulted. "What do I know about hockey?")

Rose is now saying he bet on every Reds game he managed. Well, in 51/2 years of managing, Rose had a .525 winning percentage. Figuring in the vig, Rose would've almost broken even here — about as good as it gets gamingwise for Charlie Hustler!

Anyway, according to the Dowd Report, Rose bet on 52 Reds games — not all 162 — while managing them in 1987.

And according to the Chad Report, this is a typical Pete Rose day in 2007:

12:15 p.m.: Check greyhound racing charts.

1:15: Call Tony Perez to see if he wants to play pepper.

2:15: Drive to local batting cage and practice signing autographs for $5 a pop.

3:15: Stop by neighborhood pawnshop to look at his Phillies' 1980 World Series ring.

4:15: Ask Pete Rose Jr. if any paychecks for Dad have mistakenly gone to the wrong address.

5:15: Leave daily phone message for Bud Selig.

6:15: Leave daily phone message for the late A. Bartlett Giamatti.

7:15: Google "autograph shows" to make sure he's not missing any action.

8:15: Play $40 buy-in liar's poker tournament online.

9:15: Bingo!

http://www.insidebayarea.com/turn2/ci_5477673