My Shiny New Blog
Moderator: Yankees
-
Cardinals
- Posts: 8041
- Joined: Sat May 18, 2002 1:00 am
- Location: Manch Vegas, CT
- Name: John Paul Starkey
baseball is becoming an expensive sport to play, in america at least now, so let's not act as if it's a poor man's sport because it's not. the kids with the most money and help rise to the top; nicer equipment (a good bat is around 200 nowadays), training etc., it gets you a long way. basketball is the least expensive by far.
12, 14, 15, 17, 22
Let's see, you're comparing farming, a necessity, to sports, a luxury/recreation activity. Kids from poorer families are less likely to be able to afford to play the more expensive sports. That social/economic distinction is pretty much the definition of elitist.Cardinals wrote:Something being expensive makes you elitist? So are farmers elitist because tractors, combines, ect. cost a lot of money? Or is this another case of "Bren doesn't like it so there can't possibly be anything good about it"
Jim, Maine has a smaller population than 40 states. The bulk of the US population does not live in areas where lakes and ponds freeze enough that they are safe enough to skate on regularly. I lived In Massachusetts, right next to a pond, for my entire youth. The pond froze enough to walk on perhaps once a winter and it didn't last long and MA is butt cold compared to a lot of other parts of the US.
As JP pointed out, baseball is also becoming more expensive... and as has been noted in several articles, fewer and fewer inner city or otherwise poor athletes are playing the game because of it.
One correction, soccer isn't the easiest pick or cheapest sport. Cross Country probably is. Golf probably challenges hockey for pickup game difficulty.
-
Cardinals
- Posts: 8041
- Joined: Sat May 18, 2002 1:00 am
- Location: Manch Vegas, CT
- Name: John Paul Starkey
I dont think many inner city kids are gonna say, "yo holmes, lets go run some XC." they're gonna want to shoot hoop or play soccer; more likely the former than the latter.
baseball is ridiculously expensive now. maybe you want to color me a racist or something, but there's a reason why CC sabathia and others have noted there's been a decrease in blacks in the big leagues. basketball and soccer are just far more accessible for the inner city kids where they don't have to really pony up any money whatsoever to play, and it's cooler to play nowadays. if i'm an eight year old living in the city with not a ton of income, i'm going to want to play basketball because 1- it's easier to pick up, 2- it would be much cheaper and I'm sure the parents would have a say in this.
it's kind of a shame too because i bet there are plenty of capable blacks out there that would be very good players/prospects/big leaguers with their athletic ability that just never had a chance to play, but that's the way it works now.
as for other countries, that's a different story altogether. I'm talking solely about the USA right now.
baseball is ridiculously expensive now. maybe you want to color me a racist or something, but there's a reason why CC sabathia and others have noted there's been a decrease in blacks in the big leagues. basketball and soccer are just far more accessible for the inner city kids where they don't have to really pony up any money whatsoever to play, and it's cooler to play nowadays. if i'm an eight year old living in the city with not a ton of income, i'm going to want to play basketball because 1- it's easier to pick up, 2- it would be much cheaper and I'm sure the parents would have a say in this.
it's kind of a shame too because i bet there are plenty of capable blacks out there that would be very good players/prospects/big leaguers with their athletic ability that just never had a chance to play, but that's the way it works now.
as for other countries, that's a different story altogether. I'm talking solely about the USA right now.
12, 14, 15, 17, 22
I don't disagree about the XC, I'm just saying that as a matter of ease/cost of participation XC is as simple and affordable as it gets. It's also not particularly glamorous nor likely to lead to great wealth. basketball on the other hand IS more glamorous and the potential for making millions is certainly there (even the best runners in the world don't make a ton of money). Even soccer has a major league, while running is very individual.
Hockey, in addition to the high cost of getting into it as a kid, is the least glamorous of the major sports (compared to football, baseball basketball) and also the lowest paying.
Baseball is a very different sport from hockey, basketball, football, soccer. It's as much a leisure activity as anything else. You go to a game and relax in the stands under the warmth of the summer sun... or you listen to it on the radio (it's the only sport that really works on the radio) at the beach, a barbecue, or while driving home from work... Television is probably the worst way to experience a game of baseball but even then, it's still relaxing.
Hockey, in addition to the high cost of getting into it as a kid, is the least glamorous of the major sports (compared to football, baseball basketball) and also the lowest paying.
Baseball is a very different sport from hockey, basketball, football, soccer. It's as much a leisure activity as anything else. You go to a game and relax in the stands under the warmth of the summer sun... or you listen to it on the radio (it's the only sport that really works on the radio) at the beach, a barbecue, or while driving home from work... Television is probably the worst way to experience a game of baseball but even then, it's still relaxing.
-
Padres
- Site Admin
- Posts: 4822
- Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 1:00 am
- Location: Wells, Maine
- Name: Jim Berger
[quote="RedSox"]Jim, Maine has a smaller population than 40 states. The bulk of the US population does not live in areas where lakes and ponds freeze enough that they are safe enough to skate on regularly.[quote]
I don't disagree with anything in this statement. I do disagree with your prior universal statement that ice hockey is an elitist sport. I simply used the example I did to point out that, at least in much of Maine, ice hockey is not an elitist sport - rather it is played and enjoyed by pretty folk. Perhaps in Miami. Austin or LA where it can only be played indoors all year round it might logically be considered an elitist sport - but it isn't in Maine, parts of Michigan, much of Wisconsin and North Dakota among a few states - I would guess there are others.
Heck - when I lived in Springfield, IL there was a group of us that paid $3 a piece (this was around 25 years ago) once a week from September through March to get rink time from 10 pm to midnight Thursday nights to play "duffers' hockey". Some were good, some weren't that good (like yours truly although I was better at ice hockey then basketball) - I don't think any of us were rich. We just enjoyed playing and pretty much figured if we weren't we'd probably spend that $3 in a bar.
I don't disagree with anything in this statement. I do disagree with your prior universal statement that ice hockey is an elitist sport. I simply used the example I did to point out that, at least in much of Maine, ice hockey is not an elitist sport - rather it is played and enjoyed by pretty folk. Perhaps in Miami. Austin or LA where it can only be played indoors all year round it might logically be considered an elitist sport - but it isn't in Maine, parts of Michigan, much of Wisconsin and North Dakota among a few states - I would guess there are others.
Heck - when I lived in Springfield, IL there was a group of us that paid $3 a piece (this was around 25 years ago) once a week from September through March to get rink time from 10 pm to midnight Thursday nights to play "duffers' hockey". Some were good, some weren't that good (like yours truly although I was better at ice hockey then basketball) - I don't think any of us were rich. We just enjoyed playing and pretty much figured if we weren't we'd probably spend that $3 in a bar.
Anything can be "elitest" I think, from that standpoint. I mean, take my DJing for instance.
You can go low end, bedroom DJ stuff - belt driven turntables, analog signals, 2 channel crappy mixers. Shitty home stereo. Standard needles. In that respect, its not very elitest. Or you can shell some bucks for good equipment, and can easily run into the thousands - not even factoring in vinyl.
I myself have shelled out quite a bit of dough over the years, but I don't consider myself elitest. I've known other's who make me look like a chump. One of these days I'll have to post a picture of my friends record collection. Unfuckingreal.
You can go low end, bedroom DJ stuff - belt driven turntables, analog signals, 2 channel crappy mixers. Shitty home stereo. Standard needles. In that respect, its not very elitest. Or you can shell some bucks for good equipment, and can easily run into the thousands - not even factoring in vinyl.
I myself have shelled out quite a bit of dough over the years, but I don't consider myself elitest. I've known other's who make me look like a chump. One of these days I'll have to post a picture of my friends record collection. Unfuckingreal.
"Hating the Yankees is as American as pizza pie, unwed mothers, and cheating on your income tax."
Nate,
that low end stuff will still get you going and it's fairly universally available. For the overwhelming majority of parents/kids, getting into hockey is very expensive. My former boss had a young son who was into hockey. As a single mother (which is all too common these days) she had to give him a choice. He could play hockey, or give up a couple other activities. Not one or two, but several because hockey is expensive. When cost is prohibitive to participation, even at a basic level, it's elitist. That may be hard to accept because hockey players have a very blue collar, rough and tumble, far from elitist image. Something is elitist when it's inaccessible to a great number of people. Hockey's cost, most places, makes it elitist. It's saving grace is probably that it is more accessible some places. Thinking back to when I was younger, the few people I knew that played hockey were kids whose parents lived in nicer houses in the nicer areas of town. They had the money to afford to play hockey.
that low end stuff will still get you going and it's fairly universally available. For the overwhelming majority of parents/kids, getting into hockey is very expensive. My former boss had a young son who was into hockey. As a single mother (which is all too common these days) she had to give him a choice. He could play hockey, or give up a couple other activities. Not one or two, but several because hockey is expensive. When cost is prohibitive to participation, even at a basic level, it's elitist. That may be hard to accept because hockey players have a very blue collar, rough and tumble, far from elitist image. Something is elitist when it's inaccessible to a great number of people. Hockey's cost, most places, makes it elitist. It's saving grace is probably that it is more accessible some places. Thinking back to when I was younger, the few people I knew that played hockey were kids whose parents lived in nicer houses in the nicer areas of town. They had the money to afford to play hockey.
Exactly John! And people don't want to bring that up because they think its racist. But if you're a poor black kid with a world of talent, you're going to play basketball, go to college for a year and go pro and make millions without having proved yourself. Or go to college for 3 years and get drafted and make a lot of money. If you go play pro baseball, aside from your signing bonus, you ain't making much. And lets face it, a lot of them probably blow through their signing bonus right away because its the first time in their lives they've had extra income. So now they're stuck playing in Kannapolis, or Ft. Wayne or Peoria, not making much money and if/when they make it to the majors, have to wait a few years before they'll even sniff 7 figuresRockies wrote:Payday comes a lot quicker in the NBA & NFL.
-
Mets
- Posts: 2339
- Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 1:00 am
- Location: Atlanta, GA
- Name: John Anderson
- Contact:
I had a buddy who came up through the minor league system.
In rookie ball his salary was $18k
in low A it was bumped to $24k
I think he made $30k in high A
Once he made it to AA, it jumped to a normal salary of $70K, which most people would be proud to have....I lost touch with him after he got passed that point...
Disclaimer: This was about 4-5 years ago
In rookie ball his salary was $18k
in low A it was bumped to $24k
I think he made $30k in high A
Once he made it to AA, it jumped to a normal salary of $70K, which most people would be proud to have....I lost touch with him after he got passed that point...
Disclaimer: This was about 4-5 years ago
2008-2023 Mets: 1,143-1,296...469%
2006-2008 Rockies: 242-244...498%
IBC Total: 1,385-1,540...474%
2022: lost WC
2023: lost WC
2024: 1st NL East; lost WC
2006-2008 Rockies: 242-244...498%
IBC Total: 1,385-1,540...474%
2022: lost WC
2023: lost WC
2024: 1st NL East; lost WC
-
Dodgers
- Site Admin
- Posts: 5783
- Joined: Fri May 30, 2003 1:00 am
- Location: Fort Lauderdale
- Name: Shawn Walsh
I found some other numbers from 05.Rockies wrote:I had a buddy who came up through the minor league system.
In rookie ball his salary was $18k
in low A it was bumped to $24k
I think he made $30k in high A
Once he made it to AA, it jumped to a normal salary of $70K, which most people would be proud to have....I lost touch with him after he got passed that point...
Disclaimer: This was about 4-5 years ago
First contract season: $850/month maximum. After that, open to negotiation
Alien Salary Rates: Different for aliens on visas--mandated by INS (Immigration).
Triple-A--First year: $2,150/month, after first year no less than $2,150/month
Class AA-First year: $1,500/month, after first year no less than $1,500/month
Class A (full season)--First year: $1,050/month, after first year no
less than $1,050/month
Class A (short-season)--First year: $850/month, after first year no
less than $850/month
Dominican & Venezuelan Summer Leagues--no lower than $300/month
Meal Money: $20 per day at all levels, while on the road
And currently on MILB FAQ:
First contract season: $1,100/month maximum. After that, open to negotiation
Alien Salary Rates: Different for aliens on visas--mandated by INS (Immigration).
Meal Money: $20 per day at all levels, while on the road
-
Nationals
- Posts: 1904
- Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:00 am
- Location: West Hartford, CT
- Name: Ian Schnaufer
Uh...no. I'm speaking from the better part of a decade running cross that if you do and you're serious about it, you'll probably end up spending close to $300 a year on shoes/spikes. You add clothes into the equation (not a must--I've been in the same pairs of shorts for the last 3 years and I don't believe in technifabrics) and the cost is going up.RedSox wrote:I'm just saying that as a matter of ease/cost of participation XC is as simple and affordable as it gets.
If you want something cheap, look at diving...
I love the technical fabrics, but agreed, they're not a must by any means.
You're going to spend a pretty good amount of money each year on shoes/cleats in just about any sport so yes, while you can spend $300 a year on shoes for cross country. You're probably going to be spending a similar amount on shoes in any other sport (even if it's not cleats, you still have to train in some sort of footwear for soccer, baseball, basketball, football, etc and training in that footwear will wear it out). You don't have to pay for field, pool or ice time to train, you just step out your front door. There's no need for extra pads, sticks, bats or even balls. You don't even need a cup or jockstrap. Sneakers, shorts and a shirt and you're good to go.
You're going to spend a pretty good amount of money each year on shoes/cleats in just about any sport so yes, while you can spend $300 a year on shoes for cross country. You're probably going to be spending a similar amount on shoes in any other sport (even if it's not cleats, you still have to train in some sort of footwear for soccer, baseball, basketball, football, etc and training in that footwear will wear it out). You don't have to pay for field, pool or ice time to train, you just step out your front door. There's no need for extra pads, sticks, bats or even balls. You don't even need a cup or jockstrap. Sneakers, shorts and a shirt and you're good to go.
Bren, you forgot to tell us how much your helmet cost though.RedSox wrote:I love the technical fabrics, but agreed, they're not a must by any means.
You're going to spend a pretty good amount of money each year on shoes/cleats in just about any sport so yes, while you can spend $300 a year on shoes for cross country. You're probably going to be spending a similar amount on shoes in any other sport (even if it's not cleats, you still have to train in some sort of footwear for soccer, baseball, basketball, football, etc and training in that footwear will wear it out). You don't have to pay for field, pool or ice time to train, you just step out your front door. There's no need for extra pads, sticks, bats or even balls. You don't even need a cup or jockstrap. Sneakers, shorts and a shirt and you're good to go.
"Hating the Yankees is as American as pizza pie, unwed mothers, and cheating on your income tax."
That doesn't make any sense.Reds wrote:Bren, you forgot to tell us how much your helmet cost though.RedSox wrote:I love the technical fabrics, but agreed, they're not a must by any means.
You're going to spend a pretty good amount of money each year on shoes/cleats in just about any sport so yes, while you can spend $300 a year on shoes for cross country. You're probably going to be spending a similar amount on shoes in any other sport (even if it's not cleats, you still have to train in some sort of footwear for soccer, baseball, basketball, football, etc and training in that footwear will wear it out). You don't have to pay for field, pool or ice time to train, you just step out your front door. There's no need for extra pads, sticks, bats or even balls. You don't even need a cup or jockstrap. Sneakers, shorts and a shirt and you're good to go.
Relax pal, just some friendly jabbing on a message board. No need to get your panties in a bunch. Forgive me for trying to inject some humor into this rediculous thread. Its too bad you can't just laugh at yourself instead of turning into butthurt bren.
What I do, is not relevant to this discussion. Find something else to try to "bash" me on, cuz you didn't get my little joke, and then when you had it explained to you, didn't like it.
In any case, remind me again what you brought to this conversation that was intelligent? That hockey is a canuck sport and therefore is not relevant in the world that revolves around bren? That its "elitest"? Get off your pedistal Bren, you're not the first person in this league to be called a retard, and you wont be the last.
What I do, is not relevant to this discussion. Find something else to try to "bash" me on, cuz you didn't get my little joke, and then when you had it explained to you, didn't like it.
In any case, remind me again what you brought to this conversation that was intelligent? That hockey is a canuck sport and therefore is not relevant in the world that revolves around bren? That its "elitest"? Get off your pedistal Bren, you're not the first person in this league to be called a retard, and you wont be the last.
"Hating the Yankees is as American as pizza pie, unwed mothers, and cheating on your income tax."
-
Mets
- Posts: 2339
- Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 1:00 am
- Location: Atlanta, GA
- Name: John Anderson
- Contact:
Great numbers...my buddy was actually ahead of the curve.
Must have had a good agent.
Must have had a good agent.
Dodgers wrote:I found some other numbers from 05.Rockies wrote:I had a buddy who came up through the minor league system.
In rookie ball his salary was $18k
in low A it was bumped to $24k
I think he made $30k in high A
Once he made it to AA, it jumped to a normal salary of $70K, which most people would be proud to have....I lost touch with him after he got passed that point...
Disclaimer: This was about 4-5 years ago
First contract season: $850/month maximum. After that, open to negotiation
Alien Salary Rates: Different for aliens on visas--mandated by INS (Immigration).
Triple-A--First year: $2,150/month, after first year no less than $2,150/month
Class AA-First year: $1,500/month, after first year no less than $1,500/month
Class A (full season)--First year: $1,050/month, after first year no
less than $1,050/month
Class A (short-season)--First year: $850/month, after first year no
less than $850/month
Dominican & Venezuelan Summer Leagues--no lower than $300/month
Meal Money: $20 per day at all levels, while on the road
And currently on MILB FAQ:
First contract season: $1,100/month maximum. After that, open to negotiation
Alien Salary Rates: Different for aliens on visas--mandated by INS (Immigration).
Meal Money: $20 per day at all levels, while on the road
2008-2023 Mets: 1,143-1,296...469%
2006-2008 Rockies: 242-244...498%
IBC Total: 1,385-1,540...474%
2022: lost WC
2023: lost WC
2024: 1st NL East; lost WC
2006-2008 Rockies: 242-244...498%
IBC Total: 1,385-1,540...474%
2022: lost WC
2023: lost WC
2024: 1st NL East; lost WC
If you want to call me a retard, be prepared to take a shot back. I thought that might have been the reference when i first read it, but didn't think you were actually stupid enough that THAT kind of weak sauce was what you would have to resort to in order to defend your position. Apparently I gave you too much credit, you really are THAT sad and unoriginal.Reds wrote:Relax pal, just some friendly jabbing on a message board. No need to get your panties in a bunch. Forgive me for trying to inject some humor into this rediculous thread. Its too bad you can't just laugh at yourself instead of turning into butthurt bren.
What I do, is not relevant to this discussion. Find something else to try to "bash" me on, cuz you didn't get my little joke, and then when you had it explained to you, didn't like it.
In any case, remind me again what you brought to this conversation that was intelligent? That hockey is a canuck sport and therefore is not relevant in the world that revolves around bren? That its "elitest"? Get off your pedistal Bren, you're not the first person in this league to be called a retard, and you wont be the last.
Hockey is elitist and I gave reasons why. What's your big reply gonna be? "No it isn't!" Apparently that kind of reply is what constitutes a logical response around here nowadays.
A story showing just how little people care about hockey...
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/playoffs2 ... id=2894490
Worst primetime rating ever for NBC. For any television program of any kind.
