IBC

Z, no one is saying he wont be a good pitcher, but hes not great and doesnt have the upside to be great that the other 2 players have.

Who says you need overpowering stuff to be an ace or #1? Was Maddux ever really overpowering? Glavine? There are a lot of descriptors for those two guys, I don't think overpowering is one of them.

Samardzija has some upside... mostly though, IMO, he has HYPE-side.

Angels Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:06 pm Post subject:
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Z, no one is saying he wont be a good pitcher, but hes not great and doesnt have the upside to be great that the other 2 players have.


Brewers Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:05 pm Post subject:
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He doesnt have overpowering stuff like joba does. He will never be the ace of the yankees staff...

I refuse to let this crap pass - these are two "because I said so" responses.


He doesn't have A hiccup in his past. There is a tremendous list of people without overpowering stuff who have had incredible success in MLB.

Truthfully, watching him this year I saw a fastball he could add and subtract from, an out curveball he showed at the MLB level, and an above average changeup that was way more then just a show-me pitch.

Give me hard information that tells me he's not a #2. Give me some stat somewhere - or something in his past, or makeup - just something, please...

Royals wrote:
Give me hard information that tells me he's not a #2. Give me some stat somewhere - or something in his past, or makeup - just something, please...

His mother was a whore...

That just means that he's tougher for having to overcome TJ as quick as he did and a whorish mom...He can doubly handle the pressure...

NEXT STAT PLEASE!

hahahaha nice

Personally, I even like that's he's already had TJ... there are some schools of thought out there that think TJ as a preventative measure could become fairly common. If he wasn't a Yankee, I'd love the guy and would have given way more for him.

Z we are entitled to our opinions, yours is no more right then ours i guess the only way we will find out is to see what happens 5-6 years down the road.

I'm backing mine up with actual data. All I'm asking is to do some analysis (which anyone in the real world will PROMISE you that you'll have to do someday), and just give me a reason he's a 3/4 starter...

Kennedy doesnít have outstanding stuff. Compared to teammates Philip Hughes and Joba Chamberlain, he has the worst stuff.

Kennedy throws two fastballs. His four-seam sits 88-92 and he will infrequently dial it up to 94. He has good movement and plus command. He can work this to any point he chooses and is easily his best pitch. His two-seamer is 87-90 and doesnít have the command of his four-seamer. It is still a good pitch that works well for him and he uses it deceptively.

Kennedy has a plus changeup that heíll throw in any count without fear. He has the same motion as for his fastball and itís easy to see why the pitch is effective. His command could use a little refinement on his change.

He will also work in two breaking pitches. His curveball is better than his slider but both have potential. His curve doesnít break sharply but has deception and plus command. His slider also doesnít break hard but is a good alternative that keeps hitters on their toes.

Though his stuff isnít great, his command makes him a deadly pitcher. And although he has found success at different levels of his career with what he has, it will not provide sustained success at the Major League level yet. He will need to refine his breaking pitches and work on his command of his change.

On the positive end, he is incredibly confident on the mound and is willing to challenge hitters without hesitation. He is confident enough in his pitching to throw any pitch to any batter.

While watching him pitch, it becomes increasingly apparent that he never throws with maximum effort. His mechanics are easy and repeatable and his body is never out of control or jerky. He seems very fluid and at ease while pitching.

I'm with Z. it pains me to praise a Yankee prospect, it really does but sying he's a /4 at best? That's just crazy talk.
And Sawarzija might have ace potential. Might. But there's probably a 5-10% chance of him getting there. 22 yrs old with an era of 4.95 at A ball just 3.77 K/9... 3.77!! 142 hits in 107 Innings! The Cubs got ripped off on this contract.

A #4 for the Yankees is different than a #4 in say, the NL. Who was the last soft-tossing righty with average stuff, good command and a good mound presence to succeed consistently in the AL East?

Bret Saberhagen?

And because something hasn't been done recently... it can't succeed now? Good thing the Sox don't prescribe to that mentality...
Objectively Dan... if this kid were on the Sox, you and I would both be singing his praises. Shaughnessy would be calling him a young Greg Maddux (because Shaughnessy is like that) and we'd be talking him up almost as much as Buccholz.

Kennedy is a middle of the rotation starter. Since when is that a knock on somebody?

Pirates wrote:Kennedy is a middle of the rotation starter. Since when is that a knock on somebody?

Exactly. And no Bren, I wouldn't be hyping him if I was a Red Sox fan. Just as much as my belief the Red Sox would roll over the Rockies in the WS was not based on blind chowdahead exuberance, my assessment of Kennedy has nothing to do with the fact that he's a Yankee.

I meant, I wouldn't be hyping him if he was on the Red Sox.

Additionally, if he were as good as everybody is claiming, when I had him and was NOT looking necesarily for pitching in return for him, shouldn't have you guys been all over him since he's a #1/#2 SP? You guys are just being blind and looking at the #'s that JB got. Kennedy's #'s are great. Is he going to keep that up? Highly unlikely. if he does, then I'll be the first to say I was wrong about Kennedy.

He's a Yankee, I won't deal for him.

He's a Yankee, I wont be dealing him.

After he got raped for Pujols by JB, I don't understand why he'd ever deal with him again.

BlueJays wrote:After he got raped for Pujols by JB, I don't understand why he'd ever deal with him again.

Merrill is the one that dealt Pujols to JB.

Thanks Merrill. Could have been yours JP if you just ponied up!

Yankees wrote:Thanks Merrill. Could have been yours JP if you just ponied up!

I have nightmares of Mark Mulder, Pat Burrell and David Eckstein every night.

Pirates wrote:

BlueJays wrote:After he got raped for Pujols by JB, I don't understand why he'd ever deal with him again.

Merrill is the one that dealt Pujols to JB.

My age is getting to me. Merrill took him for Helton and something. Then he traded Helton to Bren for Brandon McCarthy. Talk about a negative return.