Injury Reminder

[Royals]

I don't think it's a hard amount of work for me, but does every GM have the time to send in a new MP for that injured guy? What if you go away for a few days and miss a pair of injuries so your lineup is out of skew? It's not about that part being any work, it's about getting all 30 GMs to be willing to send in an MP daily and I don't think that's realistic.

Fair enough, but why can't GM's just send in MP's as they fit? Exactly the same as the current system.. isn't it? I mean, it seems like less of an issue - especially with a daily DB being available for download from this site when boxes come out. If they don't send in a new MP, tough shit. The guy is deactivated. Let the computer fill in the blank, if the GM doesn't. Its their responsibility. Get off yer ass and get a new MP in when you can.

I dont see the harm, we let the sim make all sorts of managing decisions when we dont play h2h. Perhaps you can clarify your concerns, as they seem like trivial obsticals to me.

Perhaps John can shed more light on how his system works, its positives and its flaws.

My main point remains the same throughout this thread:
I don't care if we don't use the above suggestios as a solution. I'm simply throwing it out there as an example of a system that from my experience, has worked successfully. What I really want to see and what I am advocating is for the ExCo to try to figure out SOME kind of permanent resolution, where this issues doesn't crop every other month.

A more defined and clearly outlined process. Less confusion/gray area. We can't get GM's on the same page with the current DL process, seemingly ever. It isn't working. It hasn't worked. Time for change.

Its the definition of insanity - we keep trying the same thing over and over expecting different results - yet the results are always the same. DL Violations, different rule interpretations, and a system that hasn't and isn't working to the extent it was designed.

The rules regarding the DL, (when it goes into effect, the 14 day thing, minorleaguers, etc) have been almost entirely unchanged since the league began. why do we have problems? Because people DON'T KNOW THE RULES! They have no excuse NOT to know the rules, yet somehow, they don't. It's a combination of laziness and people making as-backwards assumptions and looking for loopholes. They aren't complicated by any means. Once a week, you check the DL to see who's injured. if GM's can't handle that, how the fuck can you expect them to handle something more complicated or that happens every day? it's not the ExCo's job to monitor your DL. it's YOURS!
Quit trying to pawn off your responsibilities on someone else!

"Where this issues doesn't crop every other month."
That will NEVER happen. Why? Because you guys BITCH and Complain about rules entirely too much. You don't care if a rule is fair or not, you want it the way that YOU individually want it, regardless of whether it's better for the league or not and regardless of whether other people like it or not. Anyone who agrees with you is your buddy, anyone who disagrees is closed-minded or doesn't know what they're talking about. No matter what the rule is, whether it's kept or changed, somebody will bitch like a 5yr old girl with a skinned knee.

[BlueJays]

Way to sling the hyperbole. Get over yourself.

I've been more than dedicated to this league in my time here. Only within the last year, out of seven, have I ever had issues with "dissapearing" so to speak.

The real reality is the system is broke. It has been and despite all attempts to fix it, the same issues remain. I know, I know - you never wanted to take on so much responsibility of a few extra mouse clicks - a solution that while creating a small extra fraction of work for you, would alleviate so many additional headache's(you only need to look at the history of our DL issues to observe evidence of the headaches DL issues have caused in this league). Thankfully, you don't have to do that anymore.

You said you know the reality of the amount of extra work it would be, but I highly doubt that, as you've never even tried this system and have always dismissed it as such.

As I've said previously. You call it so much work, but its like the dishes. If you keep up on it, its a few extra mouse clicks(yes I know, soooo burdensome for the great Bren) and really a non issue. If you let shit pile up, only then is it a real burden.

I'd like to hear from you actual REASONS why a daily DL is not realistic.. because its certainly realistic and viable in just about every other league I've ever been part of, no matter how brief my stay.

I dont know, anyone who takes YOU seriously might be flat out nuts. Fortunately a majority of us don't anymore.

[Royals]

Nate, you've always been a flake (and a brown noser). You can play it off any way you want it.

There has, for 6 years, been an expectation throughout the league that the minimum commitment was, essentially, a weekly one. once a week you do your roster and injuries. That's the minimum. Changing that so that instead every gm has to check every single day and make adjustments every single day, is not fair. I personally have no interest whatsoever in having to do a Daily roster. What's more, it changes the dynamic of the league. if you want Daily DL, well, go do that in the other leagues you belong to. If every single league was identical, what would be the point?
Additionally, Player transactions were synched up with DL moves in order to allow GM's to make adjustments should a player hit the DL and a spare is needed. Daily DL would REQUIRE Daily transactions. But what do you care, you're not doing any of the work are you? You think i don't know how much extra work it would be? Are you on crack? I know exactly how much work it would be, I'm the one who did it for six years. If anyone is without a cluse on that score, it's you. Remind me, how long did the THC last?
I can't help but notice you keep suggesting methods that shuffle off all responsibility to a single individual. Are you THAT averse to personal responsibility? Are you going to Blame JP or whomever when they miss a player or two? You think that's fair to do?

I have a suggestion for solving the DL problem. Let's appoint someone to check all the boxscores every single day to makes sure no injured players play. I'd also nominate nate to take this role on. This way GM's still maintain their personal responsibility, and by knowing that someone will be checking on them, they'll know for sure that they'll get caught if they slip up or try to sneak it by.

[Padres]

Nate, you've always been a flake (and a brown noser). You can play it off any way you want it.

There has, for 6 years, been an expectation throughout the league that the minimum commitment was, essentially, a weekly one. once a week you do your roster and injuries. That's the minimum. Changing that so that instead every gm has to check every single day and make adjustments every single day, is not fair. I personally have no interest whatsoever in having to do a Daily roster. What's more, it changes the dynamic of the league. if you want Daily DL, well, go do that in the other leagues you belong to. If every single league was identical, what would be the point?
Additionally, Player transactions were synched up with DL moves in order to allow GM's to make adjustments should a player hit the DL and a spare is needed. Daily DL would REQUIRE Daily transactions. But what do you care, you're not doing any of the work are you? You think i don't know how much extra work it would be? Are you on crack? I know exactly how much work it would be, I'm the one who did it for six years. If anyone is without a cluse on that score, it's you. Remind me, how long did the THC last?
I can't help but notice you keep suggesting methods that shuffle off all responsibility to a single individual. Are you THAT averse to personal responsibility? Are you going to Blame JP or whomever when they miss a player or two? You think that's fair to do?

I have a suggestion for solving the DL problem. Let's appoint someone to check all the boxscores every single day to makes sure no injured players play. I'd also nominate nate to take this role on. This way GM's still maintain their personal responsibility, and by knowing that someone will be checking on them, they'll know for sure that they'll get caught if they slip up or try to sneak it by.

WTF Bren - can't you make an agruement without making it personal!

[Yankees]

Bren - gotta say I agree with Jim - and I'm actually partially with you on the DL thing. I'm for 2 mp's per week - Sunday and Thursday - I don't think 2 is too much to impose on everyone.

Here's the shit that's pissing me off right now - you left the league like an A+ asshole. Instead of bowing out with honor and integrity, you slammed all the people that had helped make you successful. No one would have anything but positive things to say on what you did for this league, and how much pleasure the vast, vast majority of us derive from the league you started.

There is no end to the list of people in this league that I've had an argument with from time to time. I've butted heads with just about everyone I can think of that's had anything to do with this league - but you brush it off as a difference of opinion, a joke, a critique, or you remember IT'S A FUCKING FANTASY BASEBALL LEAGUE. There was no reason for you to leave like you did - and yet we almost unanimously took you back. If you're going to come back and act like Johnny Assfuck then maybe you should have stayed away. The DL issue is an important issue - and this is a good debate.

Plus I thought you had some thesis and shit to write - that's why you couldn't play me h2h. That shit takes an hour - you've written a theses in posts over the last 3 days.

[Astros]

You act like this is a surprise Z. We all know Bren's the type that's a big badass when he's hiding behind his keyboard and doesn't have to back up any of the stuff he says. You can also tell he didn't grow up in the Midwest or South because if he'd acted like that someone would've knocked his teeth down his throat by now.

Is the DL thing perfect? Nope, probably never will be. But right now we've got 30 good GMs that look after their rosters. Sure, every now and then someone misses a guy being DLed. And they catch it and fix it. And the punishment is handed out and everyone moves on. The only real problem I see is to keep track of minor leaguers that are on the DL better

[BlueJays]

You act like this is a surprise Z.

I'll alter a famous Boston Red Sox saying..

Thats just Bren being Bren!

Stay classy!

[Angels]

Throwing in my rare two cents to this argument:

I'm in two other SIM leagues. I check on things everyday. The other two leagues have a GM assigned to sending league-wide emails daily with DL'd players and activations. I personally send an updated MP every time, the same day, if I have a player listed if it effects my 25-man roster. For me, it is MUCH easier to do it daily than it is to know of a change and remember 2 or 3 days later to submit a new MP. I screwed up with Marlon Byrd earlier this year and have been on top of things since, but I believe I wouldn't have left him active for two weeks if things were done daily here. Daily, for me anyway, would be preferred. I think if things were daily, it would prompt GMs to actually be better at maintaining their roster and be more active. Just my opinion, it's how I work.

[Angels]

I guess my best real-life comparison is if my boss says "get such-and-such to me in a few days", sometimes it'll slip through the cracks. If he says "I want such-and-such done first thing tomorrow morning" you can bet your ass it'll get done.

[Cardinals]

Right, but that is also just you. You are not the other 29 GMs, I would venture to guess about half of the GM's would be able to send in a new MP daily once their player went down. This is my main problem with it.

Lets say, for the sake of argument, we had this Daily DL in right now. Shawn is visiting home so his internet access is limited and he's not glued to his computer all the time. Lets say that Rollins hits the DL for him again. He doesn't have the time to send in a new MP and maybe he's even unaware of the injuries at the current time. I go ahead and deactivate them in the sim for the simming. Who does the computer put at SS? What if he doesn't even have an SS active on his roster aside from Rollins because he doesn't anticipate ever taking him out? Then he's left 100% fucked with somebody playing out of position at SS and his lineup order would become all mumbo-jumbled.

That would NOT be a good thing for the league. We play our league in the summer time much like MLB obviously. That is also when a lot of people go on vacations. I know I'm headed to Cape Cod around the 4th of July and will have absolutely zero internet access. What if one of my guys goes on the DL? Am I left with a lineup that I don't want for a couple days as a result, with players out of position?

Also, this is seemingly overlooked and I mentioned this to Nate last night. I don't understand where all the demand for changing the current system because it's broken comes from. The system has been working better than ever this year. Look at the violations that we've had this year, they include-

-Howie Kendrick (played an additional game, Brandon had his new MP in his draft box but just never sent it.)
-Rich Harden (Texas is still relatively new and merely misinterpreted the rule as to when he could be activated- he was at least healthy when he started)
-Matt Wise
-David Riske
-Marlon Byrd
-Macay McBride

I hardly see any groundbreaking names here, or any prolonged DL abuse.

[Mariners]

Personally, I'd rather have a guy play out of a position for a few days as opposed to the current system in which I go out of town, the weekend DB comes out, I don't DL my guy, he plays Monday and Tuesday, now I loose him for an additional week, and I'm now on a fricken 'watch list' with my first infraction, that system sucks, sorry, but I hate the penalties!

In my case, I just had Aybar go on the DL, I DL him right away instead of playing him until Saturday and DL-ing him, because it's freash on my brain, straight from rotoworld to the DB. If I wait, come Saturday, when I'm busy, I'm not gonna remember Aybar was hurt days ago and I need to send in a DB. Now, I know by 'farming him out' Thursday, I will lose him for for longer than 2 weeks (till the Sunday 2 weeks later), it's better than 'forgetting', and being punished and looking like a shitty, cheatin', GM like we all feel if we 'miss' an injury.

[Pirates]

I think people just get confused with the rules. Right now if the player is not DL'd by 11:59 Saturday then they are eligible for the entire week. A lot of DL transactions happen on Sundays, so I think where the confusion happens is when a player goes on DL Sunday, and then plays for the entire week in the IBC even though hes on the DL in the MLB. When the next weekend rolls around GMs forget to deactivate the players and then they are penalized. The IBC should still have to sit players a min of 2 weeks, but I think that the time should be as close as possible to what it is in the MLB. --Point being that the DL time should be moved to 11:59 Sunday--

[Cardinals]

Personally, I'd rather have a guy play out of a position for a few days as opposed to the current system in which I go out of town, the weekend DB comes out, I don't DL my guy, he plays Monday and Tuesday, now I loose him for an additional week, and I'm now on a fricken 'watch list' with my first infraction, that system sucks, sorry, but I hate the penalties!

In my case, I just had Aybar go on the DL, I DL him right away instead of playing him until Saturday and DL-ing him, because it's freash on my brain, straight from rotoworld to the DB. If I wait, come Saturday, when I'm busy, I'm not gonna remember Aybar was hurt days ago and I need to send in a DB. Now, I know by 'farming him out' Thursday, I will lose him for for longer than 2 weeks (till the Sunday 2 weeks later), it's better than 'forgetting', and being punished and looking like a shitty, cheatin', GM like we all feel if we 'miss' an injury.

I disagree with most of the things here but I do think the penalty may be a bit harsh.

[BlueJays]

I think people just get confused with the rules. Right now if the player is not DL'd by 11:59 Saturday then they are eligible for the entire week. A lot of DL transactions happen on Sundays, so I think where the confusion happens is when a player goes on DL Sunday, and then plays for the entire week in the IBC even though hes on the DL in the MLB. When the next weekend rolls around GMs forget to deactivate the players and then they are penalized. The IBC should still have to sit players a min of 2 weeks, but I think that the time should be as close as possible to what it is in the MLB. --Point being that the DL time should be moved to 11:59 Sunday--

Levine makes a valid point in my mind. I've always kinda wondered why it was 11:59 saturday? I agree, if anything it should be 11:59 sunday. We don't have boxes monday - so that gives everyone some time to do the transactions. And as Jake pointed out, might help eliminate the need to remember to DL someone a week later because they were DL'd sunday instead of before 11:59 saturday.

It may help smooth things out and eliminate the confusion.

[Giants]

Personally, I'd rather have a guy play out of a position for a few days as opposed to the current system in which I go out of town, the weekend DB comes out, I don't DL my guy, he plays Monday and Tuesday, now I loose him for an additional week, and I'm now on a fricken 'watch list' with my first infraction, that system sucks, sorry, but I hate the penalties!

In my case, I just had Aybar go on the DL, I DL him right away instead of playing him until Saturday and DL-ing him, because it's freash on my brain, straight from rotoworld to the DB. If I wait, come Saturday, when I'm busy, I'm not gonna remember Aybar was hurt days ago and I need to send in a DB. Now, I know by 'farming him out' Thursday, I will lose him for for longer than 2 weeks (till the Sunday 2 weeks later), it's better than 'forgetting', and being punished and looking like a shitty, cheatin', GM like we all feel if we 'miss' an injury.

Jag I agree with you that things happen, the best thing to do is have a deal with a GM to watch your roster when you go out of town. I also think it might not be a terrible idea to use our new out of town thread as an alibi and maybe appoint someone to double check rosters for GMs if they are out of town over a weekend. I also think its more likely that the situation you described would happen if people had to do things on a daily basis, because life happens every day not just on the weekend.

[Mets]

I've been away for a few days, but someone asked me to shed light on the daily DL system...

There are several main issues:

1. The current IBC system may work, but this subject has come up so many times, it has to keep coming up for a reason. It's not because everyone is just bored. It's that we have many intelligent GM's in this league, and there is an obvious crack in the foundation.

2. No system will work unless the majority of the league buys in. The ExCo can make whatever rules they want, but they only represent 16% of the league....if 70% of non-ExCo members don't agree with their interpretation of the rules, the issue will keep coming up again and again.

3. BCMBL has been around since 2005 (in our 4th successful season). I'm sure many of you have been in it at one time or another (many still are in it). It has had daily DL (one day behind MLB) since it's first day, and NOT ONE TIME, has this been a problem. We have never had a discussion on it. If we tried to change it, a lot of people would quit. Does it mean playing 4-5 games a year with less than 25 men sometimes? It's possible. Does it make a big difference in the grand scheme of things? No! Especially with the DL being a day and a half behind, if today Alfonso Soriano goes on the DL, he's not deactivate until after tomorrow's SIM...giving GM's 1.5 days to get to the software and make the change to an MP, or e-mail the roster dude.

Now, I've been gone since Wednesday of last week. If Kenji Johjima had gone down on Thursday, he would have played Thursday (since that day's MLB transactions don't end until midnight of that night), and he would have played Friday & deactivated immediately after Friday's SIM (since we have to give GM's a full 24 hours to adjust their rosters)..meaning I would have only had one catcher on my roster for Saturday & Sunday's SIM, until I got back into town Monday and made a roster move.

End of the world? No. My philosophy is that you play for the trend, not the exception. Everyone's fear of Daily DL's stem from the need to micro-manage every pitch of every game during a season. The reason daily DL's work, in my opinion, is that if you're passionate enough to manage every game, you probably have daily access to the DMB anyway. When I run my leagues, GM's are able to see a guy go on the DL, and email me telling me to please activate "Such and such" and they'll send an MP when they get back in town. That's worked before too.


As I've said already, we need total league buy-in for any system to work. Any time we don't have majority buy-in, we're gonna have what we have right now, a divided league, with violations, infractions & overall stressful disagreement.

I'm not going to force the point of daily DL'ing down the leagues throught, as each league needs their own culture. But to Nate's point, we need to find a solution that makes sense for everyone involved. I don't want to hear the "can't make everyone happy" mantra. It's Bullshit. If everyone has input and their voice is at least heard instead of "You're a fucking idiot if you can't read the rules", then everyone will be happy, even if they don't like the final ruling.

As always, I'm available if anyone wants to learn more about possible DL solutions. I'd be happy to consult in any way possible.

[Mets]

John, all you seem to see is the way you want things to be, you don't want to see the reality, which is that monitoring the DL is an individual RESPONSIBILITY. It's one of the VERY few things everyone has to do to remain in the league on a regular basis. The reality is that requiring more frequent adjustments means more work and more checking when too many GM's would not be up to keeping up with it. Would a Daily DL be great? yes, absolutely. But it's NOT realistic. And after your suggestions about not requiring players to be on the DL for 14 days and about it 'not mattering' when a player goes off or on the DL, anyone who takes you seriously would have to be flat out nuts.

Bren, I apologize if I haven't made my statements clear up to this point. It seems that I've failed to successfully communicate my thoughts, which I take full blame for.

I think your choice of the use of Reality is quite subjective. Reality is whatever really happens. If we haven't tried something, how do we know what really happens. What premise are we basing our theory on? Where's the data that it doesn't work? I run 2 leagues in which it works very successfully. That's where I base my theories on. Please don't speak in concrete terms without backing. It lessens your credibility from an argumentative standpoint.

I'm not quite sure what you thought I was suggesting, but I will try to spell it out as simply as possible so that we can avoid any confusion that I seemed to have caused.


If I DL a guy after the Thursday DB, he's eligible 2 weeks from that Thursday. If I DL a guy after the Saturday DB, he's eligible 2 weeks after that DB (assuming the MLB couterpart has activated him from the DL)

Now I am guilty of posting when I'm drunk, but can you please reference where I said it doesn't matter when a guy goes on or off the DL, or where I suggested he not be DL'd for a full 14 days. Thank you.

[Royals]

A few quick points now that I've finally settled into Colorado since there were some comments directed my way and some questions that were asked and not answered.

Aaron, You're a shining example of modern civilization, keep it up.

John, I'd love to oblige you on both those requests, but there's simply no way I'm going to dedicate the time necessary to dig up that information. Now that I'm done with grad school I can have a life again and I fully intend to enjoy it. I will say that as I recall one of the systems that I believe you proposed suggested DLing a player in the IBC when he goes on the DL in MLB and then unDLing him as soon as he comes off in MLB. The problem with that is that very often players in MLB don't go on the DL immediately, they sit out a couple days in many cases and then retroactively go on the DL. You may have presumed that such an adjustment would be automatic, but personally, when proposing rules changes, presuming anything is a bad idea, specificity is best.

Nate and Jake, The deadline was originally set for 11:59 Saturday night because rosters were originally due on Sunday. This was something that was not updated and I would personally advocate updating it to 11:59 Sunday and asked JP about it and he gave me a fairly good reason why as I recall, though I can't recall the actual reason. Seriously though, the date/time shouldn't be confusing, it's pretty simple and straight forward, even if you don't know the history.

Re: Penalties, Yes, they're harsh. However, we've also seen that as penalties went up, violations declined. The primary goal of the penalties wasn't to punish, but to deter violations. The penalties need to be carried through in order to insure that deterrent.