Because I guess that is the only case the haters have to make.Royals wrote:How would you possibly argue what Ropers said? I mean, the only argument I've heard against so far is "Dude, guys, just wait."
September/October trading- gauging league interest
RedSox wrote:Aside from it being a big departure from what MLB does.
I believe that is because, if you trade a player in the MLB it happens right now. It impacts the players, teams, playoff races and post season rosters IMMEDIATELY.
Where as, in the IBC it would not. **edit**Because the IBC has the OOPSS system and the MLB does not. /**edit**
Just stating the obvious.
Last edited by Tigers on Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Astros wrote:I think that at least one trade has been made in Sept. this year. I'll check into it.
Here is the quick look at BBA's recap of deals. One in September, however every trade completed after July 31st the players had to pass through waivers prior to being traded. The July 31st MLB trade deadline (non-waiver deadline) is more comparable to the IBC's August 31st deadline as we don't have waiver trades.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/news/trades07.html
I've had to hold off deals until October due to the fact I didn't want to trade parts essential to my contention for TIHS YEAR. This would allow me to go ahead and remove the hold on talks, resume discussions, and move on...
I like it...
I like it...
"Hating the Yankees is as American as pizza pie, unwed mothers, and cheating on your income tax."
I actually think it would reflect MLB a bit better. Trades don't happen in Sept in MLB because first, there's the waiver thing. But, we already decided we don't have something like that (hence our Aug 31 deadline). Second, the teams that are out of it just decide not to trade so they can see what the call-ups can do. The playoff contenders don't trade because anyone they trade for can't make the playoff roster anyway. There's usually one or two deals per year in September of a potential playoff team trying to get someone to help them into the playoffs (see Stanton, Mike, Bos 2005). If we allow trading now, it somewhat reflects that. We don't really have a "see what the young guys can do" scenario due to the DMB projections, so teams that are out of it don't have that to do. And, teams that are in it can still make some trades, and they won't affect the post season.
Now, about the point of waiting til next year, what's the big deal. If you don't like it, then don't even engage in discussions til October. No one is forcing you into the trade market. The reasons for waiting have been pretty lame at best (sorry Bren).
So, enough of this discussion. We can go on and on talking about this. Lets do something. ExCo, make a decision now about this. If you can't decide, put it to a league vote. This league is getting WAY to much like a government agency, lots and lots of talk and discussion, nothing happens or gets done.
Now, about the point of waiting til next year, what's the big deal. If you don't like it, then don't even engage in discussions til October. No one is forcing you into the trade market. The reasons for waiting have been pretty lame at best (sorry Bren).
So, enough of this discussion. We can go on and on talking about this. Lets do something. ExCo, make a decision now about this. If you can't decide, put it to a league vote. This league is getting WAY to much like a government agency, lots and lots of talk and discussion, nothing happens or gets done.
just as a reminder for those with fruitfly memory spans...RedSox wrote:As I've mentioned to JP, I don't have a problem with this idea, I just think it should not be implemented until next season. I don't think any rule changes should be enacted mid-season that effect that season unless there is some new, pressing problem. The Sept/Oct slowdown is not new and it's not pressing.
RedSox wrote:just as a reminder for those with fruitfly memory spans...RedSox wrote:As I've mentioned to JP, I don't have a problem with this idea, I just think it should not be implemented until next season. I don't think any rule changes should be enacted mid-season that effect that season unless there is some new, pressing problem. The Sept/Oct slowdown is not new and it's not pressing.
For those with fruitfly memory spans.....the bolded part was already shot down. Poor excuse. No big deal though......the rest of us can check back in November. I've got an outdoor kitchen to finish anyway.
nope, although if it did, then it would seem that would put them at a disadvantage in the trade market. Enacting a rule which leaves a particular group at a disadvantage wouldn't be appropriate.Mariners wrote:RedSox wrote:The ExCo already voted on it once, it got shot down. I'll post another poll though.
Ahh.....the playoff guys must not have wanted anyone else to have any fun this time of the year. Might distract them from their mission.
This argument basically boils down to this.
A: We want to be able to trade now.
B: Hold your horses and wait 6 weeks like we have every other season.
A: But we want it NOW!
nope, although if it did, then it would seem that would put them at a disadvantage in the trade market. Enacting a rule which leaves a particular group at a disadvantage wouldn't be appropriate.
This argument basically boils down to this.
A: We want to be able to trade now.
B: Hold your horses and wait 6 weeks like we have every other season.
A: But we want it NOW!
How again does the proposal put playoff teams as a "disadvantage"? I don't believe that part of your arguement makes any sense what so ever.
The arguement more accurately boils down to this:
A: The majority of the teams in the league are looking for something to keep them interested for the next six weeks so they viewed opening trading back up as an option, because, with the OOPSS system we would be able to track the trades easily and NOT have it impact any rosters in the database THIS SEASON.
B: We haven't done it in the past so lets not change anything now.
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Yankees
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Also, the one thing that really bothers me here, is that I've narrowed down the "no's" to two reasons:
1) Personal pride that they just don't want to give in (even though they think it's a good rule)
2) "I'm in the playoffs, why doesn't everyone else just wait."
Way to keep the betterment of the league in the larger perspective...
1) Personal pride that they just don't want to give in (even though they think it's a good rule)
2) "I'm in the playoffs, why doesn't everyone else just wait."
Way to keep the betterment of the league in the larger perspective...
The playoff team bit was a joke.Mariners wrote:nope, although if it did, then it would seem that would put them at a disadvantage in the trade market. Enacting a rule which leaves a particular group at a disadvantage wouldn't be appropriate.
This argument basically boils down to this.
A: We want to be able to trade now.
B: Hold your horses and wait 6 weeks like we have every other season.
A: But we want it NOW!
How again does the proposal put playoff teams as a "disadvantage"? I don't believe that part of your arguement makes any sense what so ever.
The arguement more accurately boils down to this:
A: The majority of the teams in the league are looking for something to keep them interested for the next six weeks so they viewed opening trading back up as an option, because, with the OOPSS system we would be able to track the trades easily and NOT have it impact any rosters in the database THIS SEASON.
B: We haven't done it in the past so lets not change anything now.
You guys want something to do to better the league? Cuz trading ain't it. Trading is betterment of YOUR team, of the individual.
You guys want something to do. Ok.
I want:
2 volunteers to do Powerrankings
2 volunteers to do an analysis of our draft results last year and compare them to how each team did and what their durrent draft roster looks like now.
3 volunteers to help Nate with his Mock Rule 5 draft
2-4 volunteers to do a playoff preview and analysis throughout the playoffs
Everyone else can start doing team breakdowns.
Submit your 3 preferred tasks to me via email by end of the day Friday or you'll be assigned one. Let's see everyone do something for the whole league for a change.
The playoff team bit was a joke.
Then you'll have to remember to use a sarcasm emoticon next time.
Bren, why don't you just say, if its not something that I think is better for my team right now then it is not better for the "league". Sorry you had to take it personal and make it into more than it was.You guys want something to do to better the league? Cuz trading ain't it. Trading is betterment of YOUR team, of the individual.
Above weren't you just criticizing everyone in this thread who spoke out in favor of allowing trading for being in favor of something "THEY WANTED" that could make the dead time interesting for THEM. Now you give us a list of things "YOU" want. Hey, Pot, is that kettle black or what?You guys want something to do. Ok.
I want:
What good are "power rankings" with two weeks to go in the regular season? All you have to do is look at records to see where teams rank right now. Wait tell the offseason, after some trades happen and GM's get a chance to dump their "one year veteran pickups" and start adding youngsters to their 25 man roster. I'd volunteer to do that this winter. No point in doing that right now.2 volunteers to do Powerrankings
I'll let someone else volunteer for that one, no offense but it sounds stupid. Draft results from last season shouldn't have any bearing on how teams did this season as very few, if any of those draft prospects were in the database, so what's the connection you are trying to make between last years draft and team performances "this season"?2 volunteers to do an analysis of our draft results last year and compare them to how each team did and what their durrent draft roster looks like now.
Here's a quick rundown on the second part. Outside of the top few picks, most teams draft rosters have changed as GM's have treated it like a year long Rule 5 draft and continuously pick up and drop players from the bottom end of their draft in order to add the "hottest breakout prospect".
No, offense to Nate, but I don't wany anything to do with his version of a Rule 5/IBC New Player draft. I'm against a Rule 5 draft as it is, as I think it doesn't address the issue it is implied to address and is mearly a gismo or an excuse to have another suido draft.3 volunteers to help Nate with his Mock Rule 5 draft
Interesting idea, but like I mentioned, I'm pretty busy trying to complete an outdoor kitchen. If it wasn't such a selfish idea that addressed only the interests of the playoff teams, I might consider doing something like that in my few free miniutes at home that I have right now.2-4 volunteers to do a playoff preview and analysis throughout the playoffs
Once, again. You really thought your response out well didn't you? Could you pick a worse time to do "team breakdowns"? The season is almost over and you are going to have some GM's (Yeah, that's you JP) who completely turn over their roster in the month following the end of the season. What's the point in doing team breakdowns (that usually take 1.5 months to get everyone to do them anyways) right before everyone blows up their roster and makes the breakdowns worthless?Everyone else can start doing team breakdowns.
Actually, just about everything you listed was for the benefit of the playoff teams or was just a really bad timed idea. But, hey, thanks for thinking of things that would "better the league".Submit your 3 preferred tasks to me via email by end of the day Friday or you'll be assigned one. Let's see everyone do something for the whole league for a change.
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Yankees
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Now you're just being ridiculous and petty - and, yes, maybe 'betterment of the league' was the wrong quote. It's probably more aligned with 'will of the league.' I've heard you and Jake oppose this thing, and that's it - and neither of you were viciously defending it.
So, if we have 27 people who want to do it, and 3 people who are 'eh' - what are we arguing about? The job of the ExCo should not be to make independant decisions that take no pulse from the league - which is what's happening. The job of the ExCo SHOULD be to look at the will of the league.
The league appeared on the fence for a Rule 5, a mock Rule 5 is being enacted just to see results. The league is CLEARLY not on the fence about this rule - outside of Bren (who is, actually, technically FOR it) and Jake, no one wants it next year, they want it this year. And it's being shot down for personal reasons - honestly, can you both admit that neither of you has presented a cogent argument against?
There's a reason I didn't take a position on ExCo - it's because I didn't want to have that responsibility with my new job. In the last two months I've started an entire new best practice area here at the NBA, been to Vegas for 12 days, did a 9 day cross country road trip, took seperate trips out to Seattle and Portland, and then Boston and Washington.
I know there are other people in this league WHO ARE EVEN BUSIER THEN I HAVE BEEN - and that's the reason they didn't try for ExCo either, or just don't have the time to do that extra shit.
This league is happy and healthy - I think the amount of opinions being expressed is at close to an all-time high (and this is even without Rich and Josh). I'm only frustrated here because there seems like hundreds of logical reasons to let people trade and ZERO logical reasons not to.
Bren - were you happy when Bush beat Gore even though he lost the popular election? I'm going to assume you weren't. Can we try to stop this league from being as f'd up as our government - where legislators just fuck over their constituency to serve their own interests? Is that possible?
Trading is a POSITIVE FOR THE LEAGUE because it plays off of the current positive momentum of activity we have going right now. I haven't seen ONE post from the new guys - involving them in trade talks GETS THEM INVOLVED. Regardless of how much you might talk to them, it's still not the same rush you get when you get to actually log in to the website, and hit SUBMIT on a trade - that's when you pop your cherry in this league.
I have constantly complimented you and Shawn for your dedication and service to this league (just to name these two above many) - but I'm not submitting a list, and I just don't have time to do any of that shit right now. At the moment I have also made a decision to move to Stamford or Greenwich and will now need most weekend days to look at housing. If you assign me something, I'm just not going to be able to do it. That's my honest response to your last post.
So, if we have 27 people who want to do it, and 3 people who are 'eh' - what are we arguing about? The job of the ExCo should not be to make independant decisions that take no pulse from the league - which is what's happening. The job of the ExCo SHOULD be to look at the will of the league.
The league appeared on the fence for a Rule 5, a mock Rule 5 is being enacted just to see results. The league is CLEARLY not on the fence about this rule - outside of Bren (who is, actually, technically FOR it) and Jake, no one wants it next year, they want it this year. And it's being shot down for personal reasons - honestly, can you both admit that neither of you has presented a cogent argument against?
There's a reason I didn't take a position on ExCo - it's because I didn't want to have that responsibility with my new job. In the last two months I've started an entire new best practice area here at the NBA, been to Vegas for 12 days, did a 9 day cross country road trip, took seperate trips out to Seattle and Portland, and then Boston and Washington.
I know there are other people in this league WHO ARE EVEN BUSIER THEN I HAVE BEEN - and that's the reason they didn't try for ExCo either, or just don't have the time to do that extra shit.
This league is happy and healthy - I think the amount of opinions being expressed is at close to an all-time high (and this is even without Rich and Josh). I'm only frustrated here because there seems like hundreds of logical reasons to let people trade and ZERO logical reasons not to.
Bren - were you happy when Bush beat Gore even though he lost the popular election? I'm going to assume you weren't. Can we try to stop this league from being as f'd up as our government - where legislators just fuck over their constituency to serve their own interests? Is that possible?
Trading is a POSITIVE FOR THE LEAGUE because it plays off of the current positive momentum of activity we have going right now. I haven't seen ONE post from the new guys - involving them in trade talks GETS THEM INVOLVED. Regardless of how much you might talk to them, it's still not the same rush you get when you get to actually log in to the website, and hit SUBMIT on a trade - that's when you pop your cherry in this league.
I have constantly complimented you and Shawn for your dedication and service to this league (just to name these two above many) - but I'm not submitting a list, and I just don't have time to do any of that shit right now. At the moment I have also made a decision to move to Stamford or Greenwich and will now need most weekend days to look at housing. If you assign me something, I'm just not going to be able to do it. That's my honest response to your last post.
