IBC

Fair enough, I didn't use the right tone in that post, I simply meant that as maligned as that trade was when it first happened we should remember it when we evaluate this trade.

RedSox trade
Andy LaRoche, Pat Neshek, , , , , ,
to Braves for
Tyler Robertson, Jacoby Ellsbury, , , , , ,

Wow - last off-season you would have had to trade your starting outfield and the deed to your car to get Ellsbury. Now they get him for a good reliever having a rough start and a guy who can't beat out Blake Dewitt for 3b in LA. How the mighty have fallen...

I'm just glad I don't have to start Luke Scott in CF anymore...

Dodgers trade
Dallas Braden, Kevin 7-Ahrens, Mike Lowell, , , , ,
to Pirates for
Mitch Stetter, Kelly Johnson, , , , , ,

I see this trade for both sides. There is certainly more immediate value for the Dodgers in '09 as both Johnson and Stetter are proving to be quite solid MLB commodities. Getting a solid 3b is always nice, but age is obviously a factor. Ahrens is the key to this deal. If he can make it to the pros w/n a year of Lowell leaving, then JP has solidified a tough position to solidify. We'll call it a draw for now - but it could certainly slide either way.

WhiteSox trade
Josh Willingham, Adam Wainwright, , , , , ,
to Orioles for
Brett 6-Sinkbeil, Scott Baker, Nate McLouth, , , , ,

I can't tell if I'm happy that this just got two very very good baseball players out of the AL Central, or pissed off that I didn't offer that craptastic package for the W's. For this deal to be even close, Sinkbeil and Baker will have to maximize their abilities and McLouth better be as good as advertised (though career #'s do not match what he's doing right now). If McLouth slips at all, this looks like a horrible deal for Brett.

Brewers trade
Dallas Trahern, John Lindsey, Justin Germano, , , , ,
to Rockies for
Jason Bay, Kevin 0-Whelan, , , , , ,

The goal of this trade is clear for John - win now. Both Lindsey and Germano have SIM's that will work for one year, and Bay, when rigth, is to very good OF. If this rights the ship for the Rockies and gets them into the playoff chase for the season then it's a decent risk - if not it will definitely hurt for next year.

Royals wrote:

Brewers trade
Dallas Trahern, John Lindsey, Justin Germano, , , , ,
to Rockies for
Jason Bay, Kevin 0-Whelan, , , , , ,

The goal of this trade is clear for John - win now. Both Lindsey and Germano have SIM's that will work for one year, and Bay, when rigth, is to very good OF. If this rights the ship for the Rockies and gets them into the playoff chase for the season then it's a decent risk - if not it will definitely hurt for next year.

I have 11 months to worry about next year..hehe..

Yankees trade
Neil Walker, Scott Proctor, , , , , ,
to Cubs for
Chin-Lung Hu, Chris Britton, , , , , ,

Kind of a "whatever" trade. Two good prospects and two decent relievers switching sides. Britton and Hu have a little more SIM value, but that's clearly not what Gabe was going for as he retools for the future. Walker looks to be a big risk prospect - home run or strikeout. Gabe did not have to give up a hell of a lot, so probably worth the shot.

Angels trade
Cliff Lee, Brendan Ryan, , , , , ,
to Cardinals for
Carlos 0-Carrasco, Sean Rodriguez, Jeremy Sowers, , , ,

I can see the benefits of this trade for the Angels - just not so sure I would have done it. Carrasco and Sowers are both solid arms, and S-Rod is certainly a nice MIF prospect but I want to see a Cliff Lee hiccup before I believe he's not an ace. Always a top prospect and a former 18-game winner, if his fastball command is for real he has the stuff to be one of the top 3-5 lh starters in the game. I see the deal from both sides, but lean more towards Aaron.

Royals wrote:

Angels trade
Cliff Lee, Brendan Ryan, , , , , ,
to Cardinals for
Carlos 0-Carrasco, Sean Rodriguez, Jeremy Sowers, , , ,

I can see the benefits of this trade for the Angels - just not so sure I would have done it. Carrasco and Sowers are both solid arms, and S-Rod is certainly a nice MIF prospect but I want to see a Cliff Lee hiccup before I believe he's not an ace. Always a top prospect and a former 18-game winner, if his fastball command is for real he has the stuff to be one of the top 3-5 lh starters in the game. I see the deal from both sides, but lean more towards Aaron.

What? One month makes you an ace? 18 game winner? OK Joe Morgan.

Cliff Lee has the raw stuff of a top of the rotation guy - he's also a guy that won 18 games. If you don't want to use games won, which I understand, he's a guy who had a .697 opsa over 202 ip's just a few years ago - with a whip of 1.22.

The knock has been the command of his pitches - most significantly of his fastball. With command to his fastball, his secondary pitches become pretty devastating.

It's not like this guy is coming out of nowhere - just after his 2005 season, Peter Gammons called him the best lefty in the game.

And it's not like his big indicators aren't up - oh wait, yup, that's a 1.75 k/9 spike, a ridiculous 19.50 k/bb ratio, and a .50 g/f ratio improvement.

Are these 6 isolated starts or a return to form? With stuff like Lee's, I'm banking on a return to form. Did I say the Angels didn't get good players back? Hell no - I said they sure did. Lee is a guy who is certainly worth taking a shot with, though...

Royals wrote:It's not like this guy is coming out of nowhere - just after his 2005 season, Peter Gammons called him the best lefty in the game.

Further proof that Peter Gammons has lost ALL command of his faculties and should find himself a cozy little rocking chair by the radio in a nursing home somewhere.
There's the small matter of Santana putting up sub 2.9 eras, sub 1 WHIPs and better than 1k/ip in 04 AND 05.

Lee has always been a tease.

I'm not disagreeing that that's a moronic statement - I'm just saying the man said it.

And I'm not disagreeing that Lee has been a tease to this point - but there are certainly some pitchers that have put it together a little later in their careers...

Who cares what Gammons says? He's a damn idiot. And you're a damn fool for quoting Gammons and not expecting to get that thrown back in your face.
Peter Gammons may know a lot about baseball, but all he ever has to say about anyone is glowing, gushing, garbage. He's completely non-objective because he's so intent on staying in everyone's good graces so that he can get 'inside information'. It doesn't matter what he knows or what he thinks, it only matters what he says... and what he says makes it completely impossible to take him seriously.

Yes, Peter Gammons said that about Cliff Lee to get back in his good graces. He had heard that Lee didn't think much of him, so he decided to say this as a way of getting in his good graces. He was just hoping the rest of the league wouldn't find out - because he said it on national television. I mean, who watches ESPN, right?

I agree that Gammons might not be working on his A game anymore, and that that statement was incorrect - but I promise you he didn't say it to make Cliff Lee like him. And it was said because of the talent level that Lee possesses as opposed to knocking anyone else.

Lee's resurgance is surprising, but its not like Lee is some scrub. He was the most highly sought after chip in the Colon trade aside from Brandon Phillips. The guy has the stuff, just seemed to be an issue between the pipes.

Royals wrote:Yes, Peter Gammons said that about Cliff Lee to get back in his good graces. He had heard that Lee didn't think much of him, so he decided to say this as a way of getting in his good graces. He was just hoping the rest of the league wouldn't find out - because he said it on national television. I mean, who watches ESPN, right?

I agree that Gammons might not be working on his A game anymore, and that that statement was incorrect - but I promise you he didn't say it to make Cliff Lee like him. And it was said because of the talent level that Lee possesses as opposed to knocking anyone else.

Once again Z, you completely miss the point or distort it because you realize how stupid it was to post the Gammons comment in the first place. Gammons overhypes everyone. He sucks up to everyone. He's worse than a damn politician.

Nate,
That was a long time ago. Y'know, back when Colon didn't suck. Lee will be 30 by the end of the season and by then his era will be right back around where it has been for his career.

Once again Z, you completely miss the point or distort it because you realize how stupid it was to post the Gammons comment in the first place. Gammons overhypes everyone. He sucks up to everyone. He's worse than a damn politician.

Huh? In a conversation about the best lefties in the game, he said Cliff Lee. He was wrong - are you saying he said it because he was trying to suck up to Cliff Lee over every lh pitcher in the MLB?

I find that rather odd...I like Gammons, you don't - I think Sickels is a waste of fucking breath, some people like him. Take a deep breath...relax...you'll get through this. Sure sounds like someone didn't get their reacharound last night.

Just found this kind of humerous given the current conversation going on in this thread.......Rotoworld must keep tabs on the IBC site.


Red Sox released LHP Abe Alvarez.

Alvarez was once thought of as a top prospect and received all kinds of love from Peter Gammons, but began this season at Triple-A for the fourth straight year, posting a 6.46 ERA and 8/11 K/BB ratio in 15 1/3 innings. He's still just 25 years old and figures to latch on somewhere, but has a 5.14 ERA in 378 career innings at Triple-A.

Woah! Ok.....yes, I can spell..............sometimes.

humerous = humorous

In a conversation about the best lefties in the game, he said Cliff Lee.

Maybe that's what he said, but that's not what you said. You said Gammons said he was the best lefty in the game after 2005. If you misremembered then say so, don't try to pass it off as otherwise though.

That said though, Lee had the 12th best ERA among lefties that season, 17th in K/9 and had the 7th best WHIP. He was good, but certainly not deserving of being in the argument for best lefty in the game.

Gammons is a kissass who loves everyone, when's the last time he said something even slightly insightful? And how do you dig through all the crappy lovefest garbage to find the occasional insightful comment? You can't. he's not a reporter, he's an entertainer.

In your anti-Gammons rants you're forgetting that - I DIDN'T SAY THAT!!!

I'm going to go through this very slowly, since you are clearly incapable of digesting this any other way:

1) This entire fucking exercise of judging trades is pure, unadulterated opinion - IN MY OPINION, Cliff Lee has found the keys to restart his career.

2) Cliff Lee, when right, has some of the best stuff of any lefty in the game. He was a very highly rated prospect, had a very good MILB career, and is someone who had a couple successful years at the MLB level. It's not like his rejuvenation comes from him randomly throwing 4 mph faster then last year - his command is back, which makes his fastball and his excellent secondary pitches play up. He didn't learn to perfect the gyroball, he's just keeping his fastball to each side of the plate at the knees. Could he blow up? For sure - and then this is an absolute steal for the Angels. His secondary #'s, though, are enough for me to think this is just a case of a return to excellence.

3) Your biggest problem is Gammons fascination with good baseball players? He chooses to write more positively then negatively - the fuck's the harm in that? Every writer now is so fascinated with writing about what's wrong with players and the sport that that's become the norm. Gammons is a man who is unabashedly pro-baseball and fascinated with the sport and its players. I LOVED this article (http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/in ... mons_peter).

If you don't like Gammons now that's fine - I'm also a guy who thinks Michael Jordan, Emmitt Smith, etc. should be able to finish their careers on their own terms - when they're done playing. Gammons deserves the same - and I'm glad ESPN allows him to go on. I still love listening to him talk about the game - reminds me why I love it.

I'm still shocked a few starts = restart of the career. Get back to me on the all-star break.

I'm going to type this even more slowly for the cheap seats:

THIS.

IS.

MY.

OPINION.

Because I'm now an hour and a half from Cleveland, their games are always on. I've seen 4 of his starts - and he looks absolutely unhittable. He's challenging hitters to both sides of the plate, getting ahead in the count, and putting people away. A lot of his non-k's are weak grounders off throwaway swings. It doesn't look like he's fooling people - it looks like he's totally fucking with them.

I'm not usually one to jump on bandwagons based off early season #'s - but I was a big Cliff Lee fan - and I think he's back.

Cliff Lee pitches against Toronto tonight - you know what that means?

Bad news for the Blue Jays!