Retaliation...

Guardians · Post by **Guardians** » Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:42 pm

When is baseball going to get over this component of the "unwritten rules?" I'm certainly not happy that Goldschmidt got hit on the hand and is going to miss the rest of the season because Ernesto Frieri sucks. But I'm even more upset that the Diamondbacks waited until the ninth inning of a 5-1 game and several pitches into the count before hitting McCutchen in the back.

What if the 95 MPH fastball cracked his spine and left him a paraplegic? Is that going to do it? Do we need to see people's careers or lives ended before we re-think teams showing each other who has the largest balls?

Look, I get that it has been part of the game. I understand having each other's backs when it's intentional. I'm pretty sure Goldschmidt wasn't intentional. Ernesto Frieri just sucks. Even if it was, I'm not sure players recognize the danger of throwing a baseball 95 MPH into someone's body. We've seen what comebackers do. And, to an extent, what fastballs can do. Is there a real way to end this...

BlueJays · Post by **BlueJays** » Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:49 pm

In-game cage fighting is the only way we can resolve these matters.

Rockies · Post by **Rockies** » Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:52 pm

Cry me a river Sally...

Jeezus. Next thing you know you'll be calling for them to ban collisions at home plate too..

oh wait..

Yankees · Post by **Yankees** » Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:58 pm

I'm ok with them toning down collisions at the plate...that's just unnecessary violence in the game.

However, there's literally nothing you can do about throwing at people other than what we already do. And I think that at some moments, some policing of the game is ok when it's controlled.

Athletics · Post by **Athletics** » Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:17 pm

How about just knowing that you don't throw at a player above the high, like keep it at the belt, if you are going to ding him, tag him right at the hip (or when he turns...his ass).

As for the plate collisions, that new rule has resulted in some trash calls at the plate which I hate to see. Maybe there is no middle ground in how to handle that situation, but while no one wants to see a player with a broken leg, how is a catcher supposed to do his job when some of those plays are split second moves.

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:32 pm

"Andrew McCutchen says he had a fractured rib ... Not an oblique strain."

Guardians · Post by **Guardians** » Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:39 pm

Bob Nightengale @BNightengale
CF Andrew McCutchen is staying on the #Pirates active roster for now, despite being diagnosed with torn cartilage in his left rib cage.

So...yeah, let's cripple a team's season to show we got each other's backs. That makes sense.

Rockies · Post by **Rockies** » Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:32 pm

Makes perfect sense to me. Do you follow the Pirates at all Pat? Even a little? I know they're almost leading the league yet again in HBP. They pitch inside and they plunk guys left and right. Sometimes with intent(see Pirates vs Reds last year, one series I think was 19 hbp between the two teams). Pirates got what they deserved IMO.. If you're going to pitch inside with reckless abandon and you take out a team's star for the year, expect retribution.

Thats how this game has always worked.

Why the hell are people crying about it now?

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:36 pm

It's all about intent. Frieri just sucks. Yeah, Goldschmidt is out for the season, and yeah, that sucks. But it happens. Arizona has no chance of doing anything at all, so they'll lose some ticket sales with Goldschmidt out. The Pirates are now dealt a severe, severe blow to their playoff chances because Delgado hit him on purpose.

Reds · Post by **Reds** » Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:47 pm

The Pirates currently lead MLB in batters hit, and since 2010 they have also hit the most batters. They are consistently among the top teams in the category over the last few years.

Reports now indicate that McCutchen's injury is not related to being hit the other day.

Guardians · Post by **Guardians** » Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:49 pm

No, I don't follow the Pirates. Are they dirty? I don't know. I don't have a problem with pitchers pitching inside. I think you have to to make sure you don't leave everything out over the plate. If you pitch inside, you're going to hit guys. It's part of the game.

What shouldn't be part of the game is cracking a superstar's ribs to make up for an unintentional injury the game before. Now, baseball has two superstars out of the game. Sure, it helps the Reds and the Cardinals, so I'm sure you're ok with it, but I don't think Ernesto Frieri intentionally hit Paul Goldschmidt in the hand in the 9th inning of a game his team was winning by 5. Maybe I'm wrong and they're just that dirty.

Either way, I don't think the proper response is to potentially end someone's season or career in the name of retribution. I know it's been done that way forever and I know there are a lot of baseball "purists" who would like it to remain that way. I think if the DBacks weren't a bunch of meatheads, they would have gotten much more revenge by beating the Pirates to harm their playoff chances than trying to ruin an opponent's career.

Rockies · Post by **Rockies** » Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:05 pm

Pirates wrote:It's all about intent. Frieri just sucks. Yeah, Goldschmidt is out for the season, and yeah, that sucks. But it happens. Arizona has no chance of doing anything at all, so they'll lose some ticket sales with Goldschmidt out. The Pirates are now dealt a severe, severe blow to their playoff chances because Delgado hit him on purpose.

Frieri sucks, sure. But if your intent is to pitch inside, you damn well better be sure you do that without plunking guys. And if you plunk guys as often as the Pirates do, you damn well better be ready to take some back. Don't cry when the other team drills you in the thigh and back to send a message that says if you're going to pitch inside, hit your target, not our guys...

It comes with the territory. Thats how this game has been played for well over 100 years now.

Rockies · Post by **Rockies** » Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:12 pm

Tigers wrote:No, I don't follow the Pirates. Are they dirty? I don't know. I don't have a problem with pitchers pitching inside. I think you have to to make sure you don't leave everything out over the plate. If you pitch inside, you're going to hit guys. It's part of the game.

What shouldn't be part of the game is cracking a superstar's ribs to make up for an unintentional injury the game before. Now, baseball has two superstars out of the game. Sure, it helps the Reds and the Cardinals, so I'm sure you're ok with it, but I don't think Ernesto Frieri intentionally hit Paul Goldschmidt in the hand in the 9th inning of a game his team was winning by 5. Maybe I'm wrong and they're just that dirty.

Either way, I don't think the proper response is to potentially end someone's season or career in the name of retribution. I know it's been done that way forever and I know there are a lot of baseball "purists" who would like it to remain that way. I think if the DBacks weren't a bunch of meatheads, they would have gotten much more revenge by beating the Pirates to harm their playoff chances than trying to ruin an opponent's career.

So now the Dbacks were trying to end the career of McCutchen? Give me a break Pat. They were simply saying what I eluded to in my response to JP.

If you're going to pitch inside.. fine. You better be able to hit your target and not the player. Unfortunately the Pirates hit players with the highest frequency in MLB since 2010. Thats almost a 5 year stretch now. If you can't pitch inside without hitting/injuring players then you shouldn't be pitching inside. So yeah, a "message" is warranted IMO.

All I know is, if I were a guy pitching for the Dbacks... and our guy, our best player, got hurt because of a team's "philosophy" on pitching inside, and that team was the MOST CHRONIC OFFENDER IN THE LEAGUE.. I'd throw at McCutchen too. I'd have my team's back. You may say thats dumb. I say that's looking out for my team, guys I would spend nearly a year with day in and day out, 162 game grind. Damn right I'd have their backs..

No one on the Diamondbacks was trying to end any pirates' career. That line is asinine. And as its being reported this injury isn't related... makes the whole "outrage" of this incident seem even more lame.

Guardians · Post by **Guardians** » Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:25 pm

Rockies · Post by **Rockies** » Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:00 pm

Exactly.. You sound like a Cardinal right now.. I.e. a whiney little bitch.

BlueJays · Post by **BlueJays** » Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:49 pm

Two words. Cage fight.

Guardians · Post by **Guardians** » Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:25 am

Astros wrote:Exactly.. You sound like a Cardinal right now.. I.e. a whiney little bitch.

That's a Reds fan in the picture...

Rockies · Post by **Rockies** » Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:06 am

Tigers wrote:
Astros wrote:Exactly.. You sound like a Cardinal right now.. I.e. a whiney little bitch.
That's a Reds fan in the picture...

Flipping off a St. Louis Cardinal.. so exactly.. you sound like one of them.. F U..

Here's the bottom line.

If everyone here in this league, comprised a MLB team.. and you were up to bat Pat.. and some punk who was throwing inside but had shit control plunked you and took you out for the rest of the year.. and this team had a chronic issue of hitting guys - the most in the league since 2010.. so now you're done for the entire year.. and I'm on the mound...

You're damn right I'm plunking that other teams best player to get your back. I may not have waited until the late inning and the 3rd pitch in the sequence of the AB either.. But thats just what I would do. I'd have everyone's back, my entire team. Thats what I know.

It would be different if the Pirates didn't lead the league in hbp for the last 2 years and the most since 2010. Maybe then you could brush it off a bit easier.

Guardians · Post by **Guardians** » Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:02 pm

Good news: Nate and Hall of Fame manager Tony LaRussa are on the same page:

http://deadspin.com/tony-la-russa-tries ... 1616935435

Rockies · Post by **Rockies** » Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:57 pm

Tigers wrote:Good news: Nate and Hall of Fame manager Tony LaRussa are on the same page:

http://deadspin.com/tony-la-russa-tries ... 1616935435

Difference between me and LaRussa..

He's a headhunter... he WOULD be out to end a guys career.

Rockies · Post by **Rockies** » Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:01 pm

Call me an asshole for having this stance if you want. I call it loyalty. As I said, if this was you Pat.. and you went down because a douche can't locate the ball and then thinks its good to pitch high and tight.. I'd get your back. I'd bean em back. I hope you'd do the same. Maybe you wouldn't, but I'd hope you would have my back like I had yours.

Athletics · Post by **Athletics** » Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:56 pm

Tigers wrote:Good news: Nate and Hall of Fame manager Tony LaRussa are on the same page:

http://deadspin.com/tony-la-russa-tries ... 1616935435

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/a-point- ... -la-russa/