I know there was much more flexibility about this rule "13. As trading commodities, players with little or no experience at AA or higher will be viewed with lower value when traded for players at AA or higher owing to the high attrition rate as prospects move from the low minors to the high minors. (per leaguewide vote, 12/05, in exchange for looser trade standards involving established players). " as of late.
But this trade was just passed...
Yankees trade
Oscar (Moises) 0-Tejeda, , , , , , ,
to Royals for
Jon Rauch, , , , , , ,
Im not trying to bring up any veto, because I do not have a problem with the trade. But rather just trying to find some more clarity for the rule. I know I traded
Oliver Perez
for
Mike Moustakas
Jordan Walden
I know the discussion a while back was, if the prospect was a clear top level prospect then they should be treated as if they are above AA regardless of the level they are in. I think Bren still opposed that though. However the trade between Z and JB would've been shot down in a heartbeat a year ago.
The point of this was that I think we should re-visit the rule about trading players below AA just to find some clarity. Because I certainly am confused.
Trade Rule
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Yankees
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A 30 year old reliever whose ERA has risen pretty solidly over the last three years? For a very solid prospect in the Red Sox organization?
I didn't exactly trade Brian Fuentes for Tejeda.
And you traded a very good MLB starter, 27 years old lefty, for two prospects of A level.
Moustakas could tear his ACL, and Walden could have 2 TJ's in the next 3 years.
I didn't exactly trade Brian Fuentes for Tejeda.
And you traded a very good MLB starter, 27 years old lefty, for two prospects of A level.
Moustakas could tear his ACL, and Walden could have 2 TJ's in the next 3 years.
Last edited by Yankees on Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My understanding is that the rule has been relaxed a bit because all of our GM's are pretty experienced and have a good grasp on the talent of prospects. As a TRC member it sometimes takes me a bit longer to evaluate trades of that sort but I haven't seen one in quite a while that I thought was unbalanced given the circumstances of the teams involved.
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This 19 year old would have been a top 10 prospect in many organizations not as deep as the Red Sox. Jim Callis wrote in BA's Red Sox prospect chat:
The No. 10 spot on the list was tough. At various points, I made arguments in my mind for Oscar Tejeda, Ryan Kalish and Che-Hsuan Lin before going with Stolmy Pimentel ...
I liked what I've read so far about Oscar Tejeda. While he didn't put up a monster year, did he get consideration?
A: Jim Callis: As I just mentioned, he did. Tejeda had offseason minor surgery to repair a tiny hole in his heart, battled staph infections early in the season and was very young for low Class A, so the deck was stacked against him. He still has a high ceiling, and as with Kalish, I think he'll bounce back with a better 2009.
More info:
Top-notch athlete, lots of tools. Ahead of the fold in terms of age-advancement, but still needs a lot of refinement. Excellent bat speed with a smooth swing. Below average present power, but he's still very young and he could fill out. Plate discipline could definitely use some improvement. Also struggles with off-speed stuff. Above average speed, but has yet to translate that into many stolen bases. Average glove at SS, decent range, and a strong arm that's accurate but inconsistent. He makes most of his errors on off balance throws. Got some time at 3B in 2008. Has impressed with his intellect for his age.
http://www.soxprospects.com/players/tejeda-oscar.htm
Not to mention that he already has two solid years of professional experience:
year team lg level org age g ab r h 2b 3b hr rbi tb bb so sb cs avg obp slg ops
2007 GCL Red Sox GCL Rk Bos 17 45 173 23 51 13 1 1 21 69 15 27 6 2 0.295 0.344 0.399 0.743
2007 Lowell NYPL A Bos 17 22 94 14 28 5 2 0 12 37 6 26 4 1 0.298 0.347 0.394 0.740
2008 Greenville SAL A Bos 18 97 372 44 97 18 1 4 38 129 20 76 11 5 0.261 0.301 0.347 0.647
Moises "Oscar" Tejeda has been a sought after prospect since he first was signed as international free agent.
I personally use the "rule" as a guideline of things to be considered when I am evaluating trades, but this trade was a no-brainier as far as I am concerned. I clearly understood the respective agendas and what I believed to be thought processes of these two respected GMs and had absolutely no problem approving this trade ...
As a lifelong White Sox fan I have followed the 30 year old Long Jon's career with some interest and can point out his positives and negatives as well if need be.
I have voted on many trades and I am genuinely surprised that this is one used as an illustrative example.
The No. 10 spot on the list was tough. At various points, I made arguments in my mind for Oscar Tejeda, Ryan Kalish and Che-Hsuan Lin before going with Stolmy Pimentel ...
I liked what I've read so far about Oscar Tejeda. While he didn't put up a monster year, did he get consideration?
A: Jim Callis: As I just mentioned, he did. Tejeda had offseason minor surgery to repair a tiny hole in his heart, battled staph infections early in the season and was very young for low Class A, so the deck was stacked against him. He still has a high ceiling, and as with Kalish, I think he'll bounce back with a better 2009.
More info:
Top-notch athlete, lots of tools. Ahead of the fold in terms of age-advancement, but still needs a lot of refinement. Excellent bat speed with a smooth swing. Below average present power, but he's still very young and he could fill out. Plate discipline could definitely use some improvement. Also struggles with off-speed stuff. Above average speed, but has yet to translate that into many stolen bases. Average glove at SS, decent range, and a strong arm that's accurate but inconsistent. He makes most of his errors on off balance throws. Got some time at 3B in 2008. Has impressed with his intellect for his age.
http://www.soxprospects.com/players/tejeda-oscar.htm
Not to mention that he already has two solid years of professional experience:
year team lg level org age g ab r h 2b 3b hr rbi tb bb so sb cs avg obp slg ops
2007 GCL Red Sox GCL Rk Bos 17 45 173 23 51 13 1 1 21 69 15 27 6 2 0.295 0.344 0.399 0.743
2007 Lowell NYPL A Bos 17 22 94 14 28 5 2 0 12 37 6 26 4 1 0.298 0.347 0.394 0.740
2008 Greenville SAL A Bos 18 97 372 44 97 18 1 4 38 129 20 76 11 5 0.261 0.301 0.347 0.647
Moises "Oscar" Tejeda has been a sought after prospect since he first was signed as international free agent.
I personally use the "rule" as a guideline of things to be considered when I am evaluating trades, but this trade was a no-brainier as far as I am concerned. I clearly understood the respective agendas and what I believed to be thought processes of these two respected GMs and had absolutely no problem approving this trade ...
As a lifelong White Sox fan I have followed the 30 year old Long Jon's career with some interest and can point out his positives and negatives as well if need be.
I have voted on many trades and I am genuinely surprised that this is one used as an illustrative example.
Last edited by Padres on Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Yankees
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As stated, you also traded a 27 year old left-handed starting pitcher with legitimate ace stuff. Someone, one could argue, who was the most dominant pitcher in the NL in 2004 - and probably was the most dominant pitcher in the NL over a month and half last year.
I traded a 30 year old reliever with an era that's declined almost an entire run over the last 3 years. Who, while still pretty solid, I'd pray to any just God wouldn't get the return of Oliver Perez.
I traded a 30 year old reliever with an era that's declined almost an entire run over the last 3 years. Who, while still pretty solid, I'd pray to any just God wouldn't get the return of Oliver Perez.
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If you're comparing those two deals and trying to reconcile them, I think that they are just on opposite ends of the spectrum. I thought Martin gave up way too much for Perez, and I thought Tejeda was a little light for Rauch, so it's not that they should necessarily correspond with each other. They both basically fall within the reasonable perceived value range, just maybe on the ends.
For what it's worth, the deal that I can't find any justification for of all of these lately is the Snyder deal. Extremely consistent 800ish OPS catcher who plays excellent defense (how many of those creatures are there?) for a guy with deteriorated skills who is always on the DL and an off the street guy who has been signed and cut several times just since the season ended. I wouldn't be so harsh in describing those guys if the trade were still under consideration, but I find that one to be pretty ridiculous.
For what it's worth, the deal that I can't find any justification for of all of these lately is the Snyder deal. Extremely consistent 800ish OPS catcher who plays excellent defense (how many of those creatures are there?) for a guy with deteriorated skills who is always on the DL and an off the street guy who has been signed and cut several times just since the season ended. I wouldn't be so harsh in describing those guys if the trade were still under consideration, but I find that one to be pretty ridiculous.
