Reds seeking help

BlueJays · Post by **BlueJays** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:21 pm

Looking for a fairly good defensively rated 1b or 2b who projects decent. Av or better. Also, a bit of pen help would be great.

Everyone but Halladay, Cain, Wright, and HanRam, I am willing to discuss. Prospect hounds.. come get Clement, Main, Silverio, etc.

In fact, I'd be willing to discuss the above 4, but yer gonna have to ante up. And, usually the offers for the above 4 ain't close - so unless you bring the goods, I will dismiss the talk for them pretty quickly.

Pirates · Post by **Pirates** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:41 pm

Don't bother he'll just waste your time like he does with JP and Myself

BlueJays · Post by **BlueJays** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:45 pm

Funny, seems I can get a deal done with everyone else in this league except ass backwards folks who think I should trade Wright, Cain, and Hanram for Longoria and crap.

I also have gotten plenty of deals done with JP in the past, I just tend to be more careful with him now because I'm fully aware of his Trader Bob abilities - plus he's now in the division. Oh, and other, better, deals show up on the table. Any sane GM would take the best deal available.

In any case, blow me. You can stop hanging from my tip trying to get me to trade you my elite players for your up and comers. Yer still whining about spoiled milk over the Soriano trade.

Pirates · Post by **Pirates** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:47 pm

You always waste my time. You either propose the most outrageous trade or if I offer something fair you agree and then change your mind a hundred times and then disappear. Ask JP he agrees.

BlueJays · Post by **BlueJays** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:55 pm

You waste MY time.

In what fucking SIM world do you think your proposal of:

Cain, Hanram
for
Bruce

is legit?

I could go on and on and on and on.

I disappear because guess what, I have a fucking life outside of this leauge. Something a kid like you may not be old enough to know about yet. I have friends. I have family. I have real life fucking issues far more important than any SIM baseball league.

I don't care what you or JP think, if you dont like how I deal - guess what? Don't deal with me.

Oh wait.. thats right.. after that post you asked "are you ready to deal"?

Sure I am.. But not for the rediculous and assinine proposals you come up with.

Nationals · Post by **Nationals** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:58 pm

Brewers wrote:Don't bother he'll just waste your time like he does with JP and Myself

I have always found my negotiations with Nate to be productive and reasonable, even if there are issues of value on which we intrinsically disagree. Jake, you are out of lin.

Pirates · Post by **Pirates** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:59 pm

and ill listen to your deals like michael main and johnathan sanchez for bruce. I think we all have lives but you need to learn to not dick people around and waste their time

BlueJays · Post by **BlueJays** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:01 pm

Since when have I EVER offered Jon Sanchez or Main for Bruce?

I was adding them in addition to WRIGHT. Sanchez was offered as an alternative to EDINSON VOLQUEZ, who i DONT want to deal. Your being a gigantic prick.

Pirates · Post by **Pirates** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:03 pm

im not raising my voice nor cursing. Im just voicing my opinion.

BlueJays · Post by **BlueJays** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:04 pm

Here's the ONLY time I've ever offered up Main to anyone:

7:09 PM What if I was to do something like Wright, Young, Main, and something for those two?(Bruce/Longoria)
would that be a big enough haul?
7:10 PM Jake: i would do hanley cain and wright
for
7:11 PM longoria bruce and someone
lofgren etc

Again, when I have ever thought that Sanchez or Main for Bruce was a fair deal?

NEVER.

Get out of the clouds son. I'm high, but not even I would think Sanchez or Main alone would net me bruce.

Pirates · Post by **Pirates** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:06 pm

Whatever you say.

BlueJays · Post by **BlueJays** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:15 pm

Whatever I say?

Ha.. right. Great.

I pulled direct quotes from chat transcripts in Gmail.. I can pull many, many, many, many more just like it!

Love how that works. Whatever you say pal. Please, dont waste MY time offering up non established(although very good) prospects for established, elite, talent.

Pirates · Post by **Pirates** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:18 pm

then dont say yes and then say no and then say yes and then say no. JUST FLAT OUT SAY NO

Pirates · Post by **Pirates** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:26 pm

Remember this offer?

I underestand what you're saying my man... Let me try making an offer.

Drabek, Crowe, and Jon Sanchez
for
Bruce

Crowe and Sanchez are close to MLB.. Drabek is almost over TJ surgury and had best stuff in the 06 draft. He's a risk sure, but he could reward you greatly. Sanchez has the stuff to be in a rotation with high 90's heat from the LH side, rare stuff.

If you dont like crowe.. Borbon?

See, its hard for me to put together an offer because I dont know what you're really looking for.. but maybe we can use this as a starting point.. and go from there.

Cardinals · Post by **Cardinals** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:53 pm

Twins wrote:
I have always found my negotiations with Nate to be productive and reasonable, even if there are issues of value on which we intrinsically disagree. Jake, you are out of lin.

I kind of disagree here. I don't really want to get into the middle of this, but if Jake thinks he's being jerked around, then he has every right to say so. Could it have been handled better? Maybe. But he clearly is pretty frustrated so I don't blame him for saying what he feels. I mean, there has to be some basis for frustration here.

Is he right? Depends on how you see things. Jake asks me for trade advice sometimes so I see firsthand some of the offers made to him and help assess them for him. It does appear from a third party that Nate throws some things on the table and backs them off pretty quickly, all involving Bruce, Longoria, Cain, HanRam, Wright etc. (not all in one deal, but that's the players the deal is centered around.) It's something that I don't particularly like to do, but it's also something that people use to get negotiations fired up or something. Still, if somebody doesn't have intentions of moving a player, then I wouldn't bring them up period. That's just me, and I don't know what exactly goes into Nate's head or what I see of everything, so I'm not trying to go nuts myself.

I don't think Jake believes that he can get Cain, HanRam, Wright for Longoria, Bruce, +. He's not delusional, and he doesn't really want to get burned on a trade. But at the same time, since he's in a rebuilding mode still, why on earth would he deal either one of them for anything short of a Cain or Wright or HanRam or Lincecum or Felix or Webb or Teixiera? Things have to make sense for both sides.

Again I'm not really trying to add gasoline to this fire, but if Jake's frustrated then he's frustrated and can voice about it. It's probably best to be settled over IM, but I believe we've all been frustrated in trade negotiations before, especially ones that last a long time and never come to fruition.

This is probably just better off being settled between Nate and Jake personally. If i were playing Judge Judy or something I would just have them both realize the prices of each players, and if they both can't meet them, then move on. It's no big deal. Nate gets to keep Cain, Wright, HanRam, great for him. Jake gets to keep Longoria, Bruce etc. Great for him. Maybe later on in the year or something can happen. Until then, no big deal.

Sometimes some life on the board is a good thing even if it is just two people arguing- quicktopic days are being represented here.

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:45 pm

The only real problem I've had dealing with Nate is that sometimes he disappears during negotiations when he loses net access. it's a pain in the ass, but it's understandable. I think maybe Jake is just cracked out on prospect juice and has lost sight of what Longoria/Bruce are actually worth. Longoria's got all of 104AB's above AA and Bruce has 250 above SINGLE A. Doesn't mean they won't be good ballplayers, but no way are they worth THAT much. I wouldn't give up a Wright or Webb for the pair of them combined. Hanley yes since I don't like his glove and I've never been a Cain fan.
In any case, coming into a thread where a guy is trying to drum up a trade and attacking him is bad fucking form.

Pirates · Post by **Pirates** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:03 pm

Bren, I didn't lose track of either of their value. He came to me about them with that deal. And the fact that the then had the nerve to go and say that Im offering trades out of my mind is insulting.

IBC: Well what do you think I need to add to get those 3 from you?
11:50 PM me: say the 3 again
11:51 PM IBC: Longoria Lindsay and rauch?
11:52 PM me: for wright and edinson/
11:54 PM IBC: Ok ill consider that.. I need to look into the projections more when I get home and research linday a bit more.. But if I like what I find I'm not necessruly opposed.

Its not my problem if he cant remember what he says from 1 day to another

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:12 pm

Brewers wrote:Bren, I didn't lose track of either of their value. He came to me about them with that deal. And the fact that the then had the nerve to go and say that Im offering trades out of my mind is insulting.

IBC: Well what do you think I need to add to get those 3 from you?
11:50 PM me: say the 3 again
11:51 PM IBC: Longoria Lindsay and rauch?
11:52 PM me: for wright and edinson/
11:54 PM IBC: Ok ill consider that.. I need to look into the projections more when I get home and research linday a bit more.. But if I like what I find I'm not necessruly opposed.

Its not my problem if he cant remember what he says from 1 day to another

No offense meant to Nate, but he HAD to have been smoking to even consider that ridiculous offer and giving him shit for not taking it is ridiculous.

And it doesn't change that coming in here where the guy is trying to drum up business and insulting him is a real shitty move. Everyone changes their mind on deals or forgets what the deal was. Coming in here and ripping on the guy just makes you look like a douchebag and tells everyone in the league that you'll probably do the same thing to them if they change their mind on a deal, something they're perfectly entitled to do. And you're perfectly entitled to act like a douchebag if they do that, but you'll find yourself with fewer and fewer trade partners.

Pirates · Post by **Pirates** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:16 pm

Bren you just proved my point. Its a waste of my time for him to come to me everyday with the same offers over and over again and then just dicks around and says fine and then no and then lets do it and then no again. I didnt come here to rip anyone. Saying hes going to waste your time isnt ripping anybody. Ripping someone would be making personal attacks at them. All i said is that he wasted mine and JPs time.

Royals · Post by **Royals** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:27 pm

Brewers wrote:Bren you just proved my point. Its a waste of my time for him to come to me everyday with the same offers over and over again and then just dicks around and says fine and then no and then lets do it and then no again. I didnt come here to rip anyone. Saying hes going to waste your time isnt ripping anybody. Ripping someone would be making personal attacks at them. All i said is that he wasted mine and JPs time.

Your comment was pretty clearly an attempt to drive potential trade partners away. You made a public statement that other GM's shouldn't try to trade with him. If someone did what you did, coming into a thread where I'm tring to get a trade done, to me, I would guarantee that at the very least that GM and I would never do business again, not for so much as a 7th round draft pick.
You may not like how your trade discussions with Nate have gone, but what you did here was wrong.

Phillies · Post by **Phillies** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:09 pm

through all this ruckus, did anyone but me notice andrews typo? lin.? might be the first time i have seen one of those.

Giants · Post by **Giants** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:16 pm

I just assumed it was some kind of Latin thing. No way Andrew ever makes a typo.

Phillies · Post by **Phillies** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:20 pm

you are probably right, he never does. what was i thinking?

BlueJays · Post by **BlueJays** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:25 pm

Here's the thing Jake, you keep coming to ME offerring Bruce... Countless times you've IM'd me starting a conversation simply with his last name.. "Bruce".. You want Wright.. Or Ichiro.. Or Cain.. or Hanram.. or Young it seems now as well. I offer you many different scenarios or different directions to approach a trade because I've been down the road above and its gotten me nowhere. Its Bruce, Longoria, and filler for 3 stars. Or its Longoria, and filler for Wright. I offer up different combinations, and am then told I offered something I never did that attempts to make me look like a fool.

The trade you complain about I told you I would consider I did.

IBC: Well what do you think I need to add to get those 3 from you?
11:50 PM me: say the 3 again
11:51 PM IBC: Longoria Lindsay and rauch?
11:52 PM me: for wright and edinson/
11:54 PM IBC: Ok ill consider that.. I need to look into the projections more when I get home and research linday a bit more.. But if I like what I find I'm not necessruly opposed.

I ran sim tests with that trade put through. I didn't like what I found. I told you I didn't like Rauch after looking into him more, because of his flyball tendencies. He didn't play up well in my park. I also told you I no longer liked Lindsay as the SIM monster he's been made out to be. You guaranteed me 40HR. He often hit poorly in GAB, and I even gave you his avg/obp/slg. If memory serves me it was around 240/320/409 with barely 20HR. I told you I could get better production from Hawpe, even though he was non rated. It isn't that I didn't consider your trade. I did. Its that the players offered up didn't have as much a positive impact as I thought they could potentially represent when we initially talked about that scenario. I've told you this, and you seemingly ignore it. Offer up the trade on OOPPSS anyway, when I asked what players we could substitute. But you keep offering the same players up, and then get pissed when I finally - after the millionth time of going in circles with you - walk away. Yeah I walk away, because as hard as I am trying to even consider talking about moving these players, and under what circumstances I would do it, you simply won't budge on your end. Bottom line, your uncompromising.

As JP said, thats your right. Thats fine. I don't hold that against you. What I do hold against you is calling me out, calling my tactics into question - when I have no problem with anyone else in this league like this but you. As I said, I've even made deals with the most stubborn GM of them all, JB. JP and I may not have gotten a deal done lately, but as I've stated, thats because I'm a bit more tentative about trading my top guys within the division. And recently, there were also goals I was trying to accomplish that, as good as some of JP's offers were, there were what I felt were better fit or offer elsewhere. And I've told him as much. Kept him up to date on what was going on. Told him clearly I was shopping said players. Or clearly, that I was going in a differnet direction. Thats the way it goes sometimes.

As JP also said, why would you move your guys for anything less than the players you ask for. But on the flip side of that, why would I take non established, lesser track record guys with potential, for established guys I know are going to perform at top levels - especially while contending. Perhaps we're just not a good fit. I'm okay with that. But you keep knocking on the door, so I keep trying with you, often times ending with me entirely frustrated with having again entertained these ideas against my better judgement. As I said, I know where that road leads. The same dead end and brick wall, every time. So why can't we just leave it at that? I could have.

Apparently, you couldn't. Took a pot shot at me in a public forum where I was trying to feel out interest in getting a deal done.